• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

What did it take for your phono system to sound “right” to you?

Angsty

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Apr 11, 2020
Messages
1,903
Likes
2,266
Location
North Carolina, U.S.
I recently cataloged many, but probably not all, of the “tweaks” I made after my last turntable purchase to get it to sound “right” to me. I have few measuring devices, but have been guided by what I hope are sound electro-mechanical principles:
  1. I changed my phono preamp to a higher SINAD device with a higher overload margin,
  2. I swapped my phono cables for shorter, lower capacitance cables,
  3. I changed my cartridge from a MM/elliptical to a MC/Shibata (so much for low capacitance cables),
  4. I added a substantial record weight to clamp my records to the mat and platter (they would slip a bit before that),
  5. I changed my stylus and record cleaning ‘hygiene” to be more deliberate about cleaning before playing.
Really, it was after #4 did I really start to get why some audiophiles prefer vinyl to digital. It’s not always better sounding, but it can be more engaging. I still buy both CDs and vinyl, but now I think hard about which format I’d prefer for each recording I buy. I also do some digital streaming, but it tends to be more for background listening than for dedicated listening.

What did you have to do to get your analog system to sound “right” to you? What were your science-based principles? I’ll kindly look past those commenters who simply say they ditched vinyl altogether for digital exclusively.
 
Last edited:

DonH56

Master Contributor
Technical Expert
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 15, 2016
Messages
7,885
Likes
16,680
Location
Monument, CO
Bought a CD player.

Cleaning is important. Dialing in for me was mostly a matter of getting the geometry, VTA, and VTF correct. There are mechanical devices to help now; they were fewer back then, particularly for VTA. I have not messed with my TT in years so do not know what is available now. I went through the whole "minimum VTF" craze before realizing how much better a reasonable tracking force sounded. And some cartridge/tonearm combinations were just horrible, another learning experience. Tonearm mass and cartridge compliance matters. VTA adjustment was a revelation; my last tonearm (long out of production) made it easy to adjust and hear how the sound changed. Isolation was also a fairly big deal; I built a DIY stand using mattress springs I tweaked to hit the isolation and resonance frequency I wanted.

Sooo many variables...
 

Grotti

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Nov 19, 2020
Messages
536
Likes
1,176
Bought a phonostage with adjustable input resistance and capacity. My cartridge is an Audio Technica AT440Mla which is known for the need of a low capacity input.

Since i can switch resistance and capacity during playing a record, the comparison between the different settings was easy to hear. And as a result, I would never go back to a phonostage without adjustable resistance and capacity.

I have seen no measurements of this preamp, so my experience is highly subjective and should be taken with a grain of salt. There seems to be not a lot of output though, since the signal is not as strong as from a CD-Player. But I also own the RME ADI-2 pro fs and I simply set sensitivity to a higher level: works perfectly for me now.

And just for the hard core vinylists: the additional ADC is NOT noticeable at all. At least I don't hear a difference....
 

sergeauckland

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 16, 2016
Messages
3,460
Likes
9,155
Location
Suffolk UK
It has both always sounded 'right' to the limits of the medium, or never sounded 'right' when compared to a properly transparent source like FM radio (1970s live broadcasts before FM was processed to death) and subsequently, CD.

The biggest difference, however, to the quality of LP playback was the purchase and use of a Vacuum Record Cleaning Machine. Before then, all LPs had noise issues due to dust and dirt. Afterwards, there are still the problems inherent to vinyl including record wear and damage, but good records sound very good.

S.
 

TLEDDY

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Aug 4, 2019
Messages
636
Likes
864
Location
Central Florida
Added Lyngdorf Room Perfect to system.

Sources: Vinyl, SACD, CD, Tidal, Amazon Prime, Digital downloads

Electronics: Benchmark DAC3, Room Perfect, AHB2 x 2 Bridged

Connections: Benchmark balanced except Vinyl unbalanced , Neutric speaker connects

Speakers: Harbeth 40.1s; Stacked Quad 57s by Quads Unlimited, (Wayne Piqu
 

Robin L

Master Contributor
Joined
Sep 2, 2019
Messages
5,280
Likes
7,709
Location
1 mile east of Sleater Kinney Rd
Never got there. The closest was when I briefly had a Linn Sondek LP-12 with an Ittok arm, high-output moving coil cartridge. Clean, clean, clean for the first few songs, but no matter how slick the LP playback gear, I would always hear inner groove distortion. For decades I assumed I didn't properly adjust overhang, tracking angle and so on. Finally realized that the most audible element of IGD was baked-in to the design, there was nothing I could do about that. Mind you, I would usually be listening via headphones, good ones at that. So much of the distortion I was hearing might be reduced if played back over speakers. But, still, not enough for me.
 

dougi

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
May 31, 2020
Messages
845
Likes
765
Location
ACT, Australia
Bought a phonostage with adjustable input resistance and capacity. My cartridge is an Audio Technica AT440Mla which is known for the need of a low capacity input.

Since i can switch resistance and capacity during playing a record, the comparison between the different settings was easy to hear. And as a result, I would never go back to a phonostage without adjustable resistance and capacity.

I have seen no measurements of this preamp, so my experience is highly subjective and should be taken with a grain of salt. There seems to be not a lot of output though, since the signal is not as strong as from a CD-Player. But I also own the RME ADI-2 pro fs and I simply set sensitivity to a higher level: works perfectly for me now.

And just for the hard core vinylists: the additional ADC is NOT noticeable at all. At least I don't hear a difference....
Mine is almost 100% the same as yours, plus low cap cables and use the time to eq the cart (vm540ml)
 
D

Deleted member 12642

Guest
I got rid of it, realized that it's never going to sound as good as my digital copies of the same songs. Don't particularly miss it. A lot of the stuff I like is pretty busy and crisp in the top end and vinyl doesn't really gel with that.
 

Jas0_0

Active Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Oct 3, 2019
Messages
287
Likes
516
Low output MC, digital RIAA and digital room correction. Sounds glorious. Not on-par with digital perfection, but not far off and for me there’s something nice about a record collection that no other format can match.
 

Ingenieur

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Apr 23, 2021
Messages
938
Likes
747
Location
PA
The most beneficial was getting the room right, energy balance and RT60. That benefitted vinyl and digital.

TT specific stuff:
Good alignment, not obsessive, but good
Tracking weight at high end of spec
Record brush, stylus cleaner
Level TT
good Z match

imo the limitation is vinyl quality, it is variable. Digital is consistent. Both are at the mercy of the original recording quality.

I like vinyl, not saying better, but preferable to me for jazz, vocal, acoustic, piano, etc.
For electronic rock like Yes, Floyd, etc., I prefer digital.

This is a hobby, I like playing around by nature (engineer), but do not delude myself by 'chasing the dragon', lol.

I like music but want decent reproduction so the system is not in the way, it is a means to an end, not the end.
With the right song I enjoy my Tivoli nightstand clock radio just as much.
 

RaphaelMabo

Member
Joined
May 14, 2021
Messages
8
Likes
5
Location
Gnesta, Sweden
1. I changed my solid state riaa to a hybrid - the Pro-Ject Tube Box S2.
That was it really. :)
Sure I have different platter mats, record clamp, has a good turntable and cartridge. But it’s the hybrid solid state - tube riaa that makes it sound analogue.
 

rdenney

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Dec 30, 2020
Messages
2,270
Likes
3,973
I don't try to make vinyl sound better than digital. That is a fool's errand, sort-of like trying to make digital photography look like film (or vice versa).

So, for me, my phonograph-playing system sounds just like it should--and just like good stuff sounded back when it was the dominant distribution medium. I have a Thorens TD-166II, which is a modest turntable from a quality manufacturer. It is much easier to maintain and set up than the cheap Technics belt-drive turntable I bought in 1977. My cartridge is an Audio-Technica AT-440mla, mentioned above as needing all sort of this or that. I use Thorens's cables, and plug them into the (well-respected in its day) phono input on my Adcom GFP-565. If it's too hot in the top octave, I can't hear it (more accurately, I probably couldn't hear it even if it was). I probably have a total of 175 pF of capacitance, but I haven't measured it.

I did significantly rebuild the turntable and tonearm, and set up the cartridge with considerable care. I had a residual channel imbalance that I solved by departing a bit from the Thorens instructions on setting the anti-skate weight. That's probably the biggest audible change I have noted since buying that cartridge.

I did add a Music Hall Cruise Control external power supply. But I did not expect (nor did I notice) any sonic improvement, other than my ability to regulate the speed. But it creates a 16VAC power for the table at a frequency that allows me to use the larger 45RPM pulley on the turntable, and no longer have to use the belt derailleur in the unlikely event that I would want to change speeds. I think the belt will last longer and behave better on the larger pulley.

I do not clamp the record down, and have never noticed any slippage with a good belt. The Thorens uses a suspended subplatter, and I would have to change everything about how it is set up if I put a heavy weight on the platter. Whatever effect that has on the audio is not objectionable to me.

Thank goodness I haven't taught myself to hear and hate inner-groove distortion. If the music is good, I'm already listening through whatever sound limitations there are by the time it gets to the inner groove, and if the music isn't good, the album is already back on the shelf before I get to the inner groove.

True Nirvana for me in the usability department was adding a Cue-Up, so that I could fall asleep during soothing music and not worry about wearing out the stylus in the runout groove while I snooze.

On advice from an industry insider, I purchased a relatively inexpensive isolation platform thingie that was suppose to eliminate any effect of footfalls in the room, etc. It doesn't do any harm and wasn't that expensive. After doing so, I realized that footfalls in the room weren't a problem. I also bought Audio Technica adjustable isolation feet for my Technics back in the deeps of time, mostly so I could level the table easily and also because they looked cool.

When my records need deep cleaning, I wash them in the sink. Yes, I can do that without soaking the label. Then, I don't let them get dirty after that. The dust cover stays on the turntable, and the LPs stay in their (aftermarket archival and anti-static) sleeves.

All that reliably lets me enjoy listening to vinyl playback such that it sounds as good as it ever did. I usually record them to my computer on the first play or two after building my current system, mostly so I can have access to them in the car. I use a Benchmark ADC-1 USB for that purpose, in a tape loop of my Adcom preamp.

Rick "some records sound better than others" Denney
 

Soniclife

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Apr 13, 2017
Messages
4,510
Likes
5,437
Location
UK
When my records need deep cleaning, I wash them in the sink.
Really? How? I've never heard of this, and I never clean mine, or have any way to do so, but I must have the odd one that needs a scrub.
 

Chrispy

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 7, 2020
Messages
7,938
Likes
6,095
Location
PNW
I've had the same tt for over 35 years, it's always been fine, and no particular complaints about all the various cartridges either. Back then I don't believe "tweaking" was even a thing yet. These days I just don't bother as much, it's too fussy and inconvenient and doesn't sound as good in general....can't imagine that "tweaking" things would do much... like a weight? I've never ever had a record slip unless I purposely did it, but the mat's not a slippery type either. Cleaning is part of the fussiness but is necessary...
 

Joe Smith

Major Contributor
Joined
Jan 4, 2019
Messages
1,009
Likes
1,052
I did upgrade one of my tables to an Audio-Technica Microline stylus this year, and it sounds pretty great. Have a variety of preamps, mostly I just use my rebuilt Marantz 2216 receiver, which has a good sounding internal pre. I am interested the the Darlington Labs phono preamps, may get one of their MM-5 ones if I sell off some other equipment. I use a record weight with one of my tables, and my Yamaha tables have a nice OEM clamp (nice, as it throws only a minimal amount of weight on the drive mechanism).
 

audio2design

Major Contributor
Joined
Nov 29, 2020
Messages
1,769
Likes
1,830
Getting out the soldering iron and a test disk to properly match the cartridge to get a flat response (Need a test CD).

Learning how to properly set azimuth.

Lowering my expectations and listening to the music.
 
Top Bottom