What DAC should I buy? (R2R or Delta)

[billyjoebob]

A proper, normal, modern DS DAC... don't even consider R2R and/or NOS DAC's.

And why is that?

 

[alpha_logic]

Speaking from experience, and having wasted a lot of money on R2R DACs over the years - the 'R2R Sound' is largely (ill-)defined as 'musical', and what that means in concrete terms - at least in my experience - is simply less resolution and dynamic range to compared to D/S DACs.
My advice, for what it's worth - just get the 'best' D/S DAC with the features you need, and which you can afford, and then spend your money on cleaning up your signal chain to get rid of excessive glare and treble. Doing that will get you closer to the 'mythical musical R2R sound' than an actual R2R DAC ever could.

 

[billyjoebob]

Speaking from experience, and having wasted a lot of money on R2R DACs over the years - the 'R2R Sound' is largely (ill-)defined as 'musical', and what that means in concrete terms - at least in my experience - is simply less resolution and dynamic range to compared to D/S DACs.
My advice, for what it's worth - just get the 'best' D/S DAC with the features you need, and which you can afford, and then spend your money on cleaning up your signal chain to get rid if excessive glare and treble. Doing that will get you closer to the 'mythical musical R2R sound' than an actual R2R DAC ever could.

So.....
Buy a cheap D/S DAC.
Then upgrade the rest of the system to compensate for the excessive glare that the D/S DAC has, and then your left with a similar sound of a R2R DAC?
Yea. That makes sense.

 

[alpha_logic]

So.....
Buy a cheap D/S DAC.
Then upgrade the rest of the system to compensate for the excessive glare that the D/S DAC has, and then your left with a similar sound of a R2R DAC?
Yea. That makes sense.

Using an R2R DAC to compensate for the rest of the system is like putting a golden tap on a rusted, dirty water pipe - so, yeah.

 

[JSmith]

And why is that?

Seriously? Shirley you're not...

I'm going to buy a new washing machine tomorrow... but I'm worried they won't have stock of what I want;

JSmith

 

[Galliardist]

Ah, competing alpha males convinced that what matters is the topology. No. It's the measured performance (and understanding what the measurements mean), and compatibility with your other components, that is important - the implementation.

 

[JSmith]

Price is a major issue generally... value they are not.


JSmith

 

[alpha_logic]

Ah, competing alpha males convinced that what matters is the topology. No. It's the measured performance (and understanding what the measurements mean), and compatibility with your other components, that is important - the implementation.

Dunno about the whole 'alpha males' thing : ) I think what you're saying is correct btw - but - in terms of topology, you can get to a 'clean' signal chain for less money using a D/S DAC.

 

[Stonehead1]

Thank you for your detailed answers.
I woke up and read these answers several times, and I was able to make a decision on DAC within the time.
Since the sound change is not big anyway, among the green and blue DACs, the price is reasonable and I decided to choose what I like the appearance.

First of all, what I'm thinking about is JDS Labs Atom DAC+ or Schiit Modius.
After purchasing one of these, X18 or X26pro will be finally purchased (because it has an aluminum sensibility.

After that, I will focus on upgrading AMP and headphones.
Thanks to you guys, I was able to find my way. Thank you

 

[Stonehead1]

Oops, There's another page. Thank you. I'll read it.

 

[Stonehead1]

경험에 비추어 말해서, 그리고 수년 동안 R2R DAC에 많은 돈을 낭비해 왔습니다. 'R2R Sound'는 대체로 '음악적'으로 정의되며, 이것이 구체적으로 의미하는 바는 - 적어도 제 경험으로는 - D/S DAC에 비해 분해능과 동적 범위가 낮습니다.
내 조언은, 가치가 있는 것입니다. 필요한 기능과 감당할 수 있는 '최고의' D/S DAC를 구입한 다음 과도한 눈부심과 고음을 제거하기 위해 신호 체인을 정리하는 데 돈을 쓰십시오. 그렇게 하면 실제 R2R DAC보다 '신화 같은 뮤지컬 R2R 사운드'에 더 가까워질 수 있습니다.

I'll ask you one last question.

Buy the DAC mentioned above rather than buying Denafrips Ares 2. Do you think it's good to invest the rest of your money in headphones and AMP?

And do you think you can feel the sound of R2RDAC with the combination of D/S DAC and Warm propensity amplifier?

Sorry for translate

 

[alpha_logic]

Thank you for your detailed answers.
I woke up and read these answers several times, and I was able to make a decision on DAC within the time.
Since the sound change is not big anyway, among the green and blue DACs, the price is reasonable and I decided to choose what I like the appearance.

First of all, what I'm thinking about is JDS Labs Atom DAC+ or Schiit Modius.
After purchasing one of these, X18 or X26pro will be finally purchased (because it has an aluminum sensibility.

After that, I will focus on upgrading AMP and headphones.
Thanks to you guys, I was able to find my way. Thank you

Youre welcome! Btw, I own the Modius, the Ares 2 and the X26 Pro - and I think you're on the right track IMO.

 

[Stonehead1]

천만에요! Btw, 저는 Modius, Ares 2 및 X26 Pro를 소유하고 있습니다. 그리고 IMO가 올바른 방향으로 가고 있다고 생각합니다.

Oh, you have all three DACs that I want. I'm jealous!
Can I ask you about the difference between each DAC?

Sorry for translate

 

[alpha_logic]

마지막으로 질문 하나 하겠습니다.
Denafrips Ares 2를 구입하는 것보다 위에서 언급한 DAC를 구입하십시오. 남은 돈을 헤드폰과 AMP에 투자하는 것이 좋다고 생각하십니까?
그리고 D/S DAC와 Warm 성향 앰프의 조합으로 R2RDAC의 사운드를 느낄 수 있다고 생각하시나요?

Ok, had to translate that from Korean, so forgive me if some things are 'lost in translation'. First, I think the Ares 2 is not a neutral DAC, it measures well though, but I don't like it since it lacks resolution and sounds 'thick' in certain areas of the spectrum. Some might call that thickness 'warm' - again I don't like it - other people love it particularly for that reason. The Ares 2 is a great DAC though, fantastic product for the money - a real 'trendsetter'. So yeah, I think any of the D/S DACs you mentioned measure better, and in my very subjective opinion 'sound' better - where 'sound better' to me means they reproduce the recording - accurately.
Second, Yes - I think it makes sense to upgrade the rest of the signal chain, and eliminate all sources of possible distortion. This is not easy to do though. In the end, even on a clean system, a bad recording will sound - bad - not the job of your DAC or system to change that - if that's a problem, you're much better off getting an equalizer - software, or hardware - like the Schiit Lokius etc.
Third, I think any of the new and well designed D/S DACs tested on this site will - in general, depending on the implementation like others have said - outperform R2R DACs for less money. You can get a 'musical' sounding D/S DAC if you're willing to take the time to clean up your signal chain, with a good balance between the best possible resolution vs being able to listen to less than perfect recordings.

 

[alpha_logic]

Oh, you have all three DACs that I want. I'm jealous!
Can I ask you about the difference between each DAC?

Sorry for translate

You know - those 'differences' are in large part subjective, and depending on many other variables - so I don't want to go into too much detail, since it tends to create a lot of confusion, and this site is meant to eliminate subjective, hard- or non-quantifiable 'impressions', and relies on provable 'facts' - and I much agree with that approach. I'll put it this way: I can 'make work' and live with any of the D/S DACs you mentioned - except for the Ares 2, which I straight-up don't like, and never could deploy in a setting where I thought I want to listen to it for extended periods of time. Finally, what you get with something like the X26 Pro is a very marginal improvement over 'mid-fi' well-measuring DACs, and you're firmly into 'diminishing returns' territory with that DAC, and others in that pricerange or above.

 

[Stonehead1]

You know - those 'differences' are in large part subjective, and depending on many other variables - so I don't want to go into too much detail, since it tends to create a lot of confusion, and this site is meant to eliminate subjective, hard- or non-quantifiable 'impressions', and relies on provable 'facts' - and I much agree with that approach. I'll put it this way: I can 'make work' and live with any of the D/S DACs you mentioned - except for the Ares 2, which I straight-up don't like, and never could deploy in a setting where I thought I want to listen to it for extended periods of time. Finally, what you get with something like the X26 Pro is a very marginal improvement over 'mid-fi' well-measuring DACs, and you're firmly into 'diminishing returns' territory with that DAC, and others in that pricerange or above.

Thank you so much!
Thanks to you, I was able to make up my mind.
I'll buy Schiit Modius, Gustard X16 or X18.
and I will finish upgrade of AMP/Headphone.
If I feel the need to upgrade DAC later, I will upgrade to X26pro.

Thanks a lot! Maybe this is my conclusion.

 

[billyjoebob]

Using an R2R DAC to compensate for the rest of the system is like putting a golden tap on a rusted, dirty water pipe - so, yeah.

Who said anything about compensate?
I just find it curious to make as a ridiculous claim as was made.
So I guess by that standard all DACs don't sound the same. Just get the cheapest and adjust the rest of your chain to compensate.
Great advice! Thanks!
Alpha #2 out!

 

[billyjoebob]

Seriously? Shirley you're not...

I'm going to buy a new washing machine tomorrow... but I'm worried they won't have stock of what I want;

JSmith

Shirley, your ignorance is showing.

 

[JSmith]

your ignorance is showing

Dude... you're supposed to reply with "I am serious and don't call me Shirley (surely)".

Sorry, I thought I packed my ignorance away when I joined ASR, my bad.


JSmith

 

[MaxBuck]

... the excessive glare that the D/S DAC has

I've never noticed any "glare" from my D/S DAC. Then again, it permits me to reduce the intensity of its LED display to a comfortable level. Maybe other DACs have displays with excessive lumens.

What on God's green earth is "DAC glare?" I assume it means the DAC is reproducing the input signal without distortion or modulation, but it's a pretty odd term.