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What DAC should I buy? (R2R or Delta)

Stonehead1

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Hi! It's my first time leaving a message here.
I read the threads for R2R DAC and delta sigma DAC, and it's time to choose the DAC.

I'm sorry for the unsmooth sentence using a translator.

The headphones currently in use are Sony Z7M2 and Dan-Clark Audio Aeon closed.
The DAC/AMP in use is Gustard X16 + jds labs atom amp.
But unfortunately, I sold X16 because it did not feel much change in X16.
Now I'm using Audio interface and Atom Amp instead of DAC.

As for the DAC I'm watching, I'm thinking about Gustard X26 pro, Musician Pegasus, and Denafrips Ares 2.

What kind of DAC should I buy?
I am worried that the X26 pro will not feel the difference from the X16, and I am worried that Ares 2 will also lack performance in terms of resolution because I heard that the R2R method is outdated.

Or is there another alternative? I hope it's under $1,000. Thank you for reading.
 

JSmith

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Stonehead1

Stonehead1

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A proper, normal, modern DS DAC... don't even consider R2R and/or NOS DAC's.

Plenty;


JSmith
Thank you :)
Then, do you think "Gustard X26 Pro" is the best choice?
Or, would it be better to choose 'Excellent' DAC within the SINAD ranking?
 

JSmith

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Then, do you think "Gustard X26 Pro" is the best choice?
I wouldn't say "best"... as there are plenty that some would say is the better choice for them. I would look at the top 20 and decide based on form, function, features and apparent build quality. Once you're looking in this range, these are all that matter.

Also, welcome to ASR.


JSmith
 

Trell

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You are not likely to hear a difference between your audio interface and a new DAC.

That said, choose a DAC based upon things like features, connectivity, usability, build quality, support and price.

The RME ADI-2 DAC FS is a combined DAC and powerful headphone amp. For me DSP features like Dynamic Loudness, tone controls, PEQ are major reasons for choosing the device. It has a nice remote for easy access of functionality, but has knobs and buttons for control which is very useful on a desktop (usability). A powerful headphone amp as well that I need. Balanced output for my Genelec monitors. TOSLINK/ADAT that I can connect my RME recording interface to. Tons of other features. Excellent support, and comes with a detailed user manual.

There are other DACs that measure better, but I won’t hear that difference. But that is just what I looked for, as an example.
 

AnalogSteph

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As for the DAC I'm watching, I'm thinking about Gustard X26 pro, Musician Pegasus, and Denafrips Ares 2.
If all you need is unbalanced line-level output to feed a headphone amp with a volume control of its own, a near state of the art DAC like the X26 Pro is way overkill.

In a pure line-level source there is little need for dynamic range (not even SINAD!) exceeding maybe 103 dB(A) - that's the ~90 dB you can expect from best-case recordings plus some headroom for digital EQ. The X26 Pro gets to almost 130. You only need performance like that if - for example - you are directly driving power amplifiers of fixed gain and DAC output level, amplifier input sensitivity and speaker driver sensitivity are not very well matched. It can replace a conventional all-analog preamp while actually delivering better (measured) real-world performance.
(See Shoutometer for a sense of scale. Also, @MRC01's dynamic range test track.)

For what you need, you can stick with something far more basic. What kind of source(s) do you have and what kind of audio formats does it need to accept? If you say you sold the X16, what are you using now?

I'd say the money saved would be far better invested into alternative headphone options. DACs just don't make a whole lot of a difference, but transducers sure do. Also, both of the existing cans seem to be closed... is there anything that could be done about the ambient noise that it seems you may have to contend with? (Probably not much if you live in the equivalent of a cardboard box with noisy neighbors, but chances are much better if the room is an echoey mess or your computer is noisy.)
 
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Stonehead1

Stonehead1

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I wouldn't say "best"... as there are plenty that some would say is the better choice for them. I would look at the top 20 and decide based on form, function, features and apparent build quality. Once you're looking in this range, these are all that matter.

Also, welcome to ASR.


JSmith
Thanks :D
I just filled out the sign-up greeting.
I'll refer to your selection criteria.
 
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Stonehead1

Stonehead1

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You are not likely to hear a difference between your audio interface and a new DAC.

That said, choose a DAC based upon things like features, connectivity, usability, build quality, support and price.

The RME ADI-2 DAC FS is a combined DAC and powerful headphone amp. For me DSP features like Dynamic Loudness, tone controls, PEQ are major reasons for choosing the device. It has a nice remote for easy access of functionality, but has knobs and buttons for control which is very useful on a desktop (usability). A powerful headphone amp as well that I need. Balanced output for my Genelec monitors. TOSLINK/ADAT that I can connect my RME recording interface to. Tons of other features. Excellent support, and comes with a detailed user manual.

There are other DACs that measure better, but I won’t hear that difference. But that is just what I looked for, as an example.
Thanks for replying.
I'm using Focusrite Scarlett Solo 3rd now.
The reason I sold the X16 was that I felt the difference between the X16 and the audio interface, but the difference was small.
 
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Stonehead1

Stonehead1

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If all you need is unbalanced line-level output to feed a headphone amp with a volume control of its own, a near state of the art DAC like the X26 Pro is way overkill.

In a pure line-level source there is little need for dynamic range (not even SINAD!) exceeding maybe 103 dB(A) - that's the ~90 dB you can expect from best-case recordings plus some headroom for digital EQ. The X26 Pro gets to almost 130. You only need performance like that if - for example - you are directly driving power amplifiers of fixed gain and DAC output level, amplifier input sensitivity and speaker driver sensitivity are not very well matched. It can replace a conventional all-analog preamp while actually delivering better (measured) real-world performance.

For what you need, you can stick with something far more basic. What kind of source(s) do you have and what kind of audio formats does it need to accept? If you say you sold the X16, what are you using now?

I'd say the money saved would be far better invested into alternative headphone options. DACs just don't make a whole lot of a difference, but transducers sure do. Also, both of the existing cans seem to be closed... is there anything that could be done about the ambient noise that it seems you may have to contend with? (Probably not much if you live in the equivalent of a cardboard box with noisy neighbors, but chances are much better if the room is an echoey mess or your computer is noisy.)
Thanks for replying :)
I'm ripping the CD myself, saving it on my computer, and listening to music through foobar2000 (mp3 320kbps or flac)
I also tried the Roon free trial a few days ago, but I'm considering using it because it's not compatible with my language.

Not long ago, I bought an LCD 2 closed back, and to listen to music while studying, I was thinking about selling it because of damage to my neck. So now I'm using Z7m2 and Aeon closed.
I'm using Focusrite Scarlett Solo 3rd as a DAC.

And because of the leakage of sound, it's hard to use open-back headphones.
After purchasing DAC/AMP this time, I am planning to purchase the next headphone.(Z7m2, aeon closed, Additional one.)
I haven't decided the type of headphones yet.

Thank you for the detailed answer.
 

LTig

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Thanks for replying.
I'm using Focusrite Scarlett Solo 3rd now.
The reason I sold the X16 was that I felt the difference between the X16 and the audio interface, but the difference was small.
... will be so with all other transoarent DACs. If the features of the Scarlett are sufficient just keep it, otherwise think hard about the RME ADI-2 DAC.
 

Bob from Florida

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... will be so with all other transoarent DACs. If the features of the Scarlett are sufficient just keep it, otherwise think hard about the RME ADI-2 DAC.
If PCM is all you need the Schiit Modius for $200 is more than sufficiant.
 
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Stonehead1

Stonehead1

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... will be so with all other transoarent DACs. If the features of the Scarlett are sufficient just keep it, otherwise think hard about the RME ADI-2 DAC.
Thank you :)
Do you think most of the DACs in the top SINAD rankings are good enough?
Then I'm going to choose a large, heavy and pretty-looking DAC.
 

LTig

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Thank you :)
Do you think most of the DACs in the top SINAD rankings are good enough?
Then I'm going to choose a large, heavy and pretty-looking DAC.
I think all DACs in the green and blue range are transparent so regarding sound quality you can choose any one. Just don't expect better sound quality than what you already own.
 

Jimbob54

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Thanks for replying.
I'm using Focusrite Scarlett Solo 3rd now.
The reason I sold the X16 was that I felt the difference between the X16 and the audio interface, but the difference was small.
As will be the difference between the interface and whatever new dac you get. If you're looking for a strep change in sound, dac and amps aren't the place to look.
 

Bob from Florida

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If PCM is all the OP needs he doesn't need a new DAC at all. I recommended the RME only due to its unsurpassed feature range.
If he would like multiple types of inputs, balanced and unbalanced outputs, low noise and greater dynamic range - then the Modius for a modest investment makes sense. A lot of times in this hobby it is more of a "need" to just "change" something.
 

LTig

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A lot of times in this hobby it is more of a "need" to just "change" something.
Yep, the never ending chase for the holy grail. There's one safe way to get out of it: buy what you need once and then never enter a hifi store again as long as nothing is broken beyond repair (or browse the internet for new stuff).
 

charleski

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If you want to improve the sound from your headphones, apply EQ. Both your headphones will benefit from this, and this is a difference you will actually hear.
Here are some good starting points for EQ, but remember that this isn't an exact science and you may need to modify them a bit to suit your own conditions:

The major benefit of the RME DAC that others have mentioned is that it has an EQ facility built-in (as well as other useful DSP functions). But if you're streaming from a source that can apply EQ itself this wouldn't be needed.
 

AnalogSteph

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I'm using Focusrite Scarlett Solo 3rd now.
The reason I sold the X16 was that I felt the difference between the X16 and the audio interface, but the difference was small.
Which makes sense given that the 2i2 gen3, while by no means spectacular, did not embarrass itself on the bench. That being said, the performance of its headphone output as a line-level source is about on par with or somewhat worse than my onboard Realtek ALC1200 rear panel output here. (About the same max output at ~1.4 Vrms, a hair lower distortion, dynamic range about 99 dB unweighted which I reckon the Realtek can beat by 8-9 dB, and a ton of ultrasonic noise where there's barely any on the Realtek.) Gets the job done but is not what you would call awe-inspiring or state of the art.

There has to be some sensible middle ground between the bread and butter 2i2 output and an overkill level DAC like the X16 or X26 Pro. Do you have anything else to connect other than the Atom, and what kind of computer and operating system are you using?

I would at least consider the JDS Labs Atom DAC+, simply because it's a decent DAC, would stack well with the existing Atom Amp, and does not break the bank at $109 - assuming you can get one where you live, that is (I couldn't, at least right now). There should be a number of other options in this price range as well. About 100-200 (maybe 250) seems a good price range to be in. Some of the better USB-C dongle DACs may also qualify, which can be substantially below 100.

Otherwise I might look at the headphone output data table of YouTuber @Julian Krause that pops up in his audio interface reviews, especially if you can use the extra functionality that such an interface provides. The columns from "Output power into 600 ohms" to "Noise @ 0 dBFS = 1 V" are the most interesting, minus THD at 32 ohms:
The Audient iD4 MkII is very good output wise and fairly inexpensive, iD14 MkII has even lower noise (but make sure you have USB 3 ports with plenty of current output, ideally a Type C; sample rate is limited to 96 kHz for whatever reason). A MOTU M2 is a great performer as well, still managing to get about 118.6 dB(A) worth of dynamic range out. All of these use ESS DACs of various kinds.
Models with midrange converters: SSL 2 is another good one (AK4621 if memory serves), and the Tascam UR-2x2HR manages to get almost the entire CS4272 DAC dynamic range out of the headphone out. Likewise, the Steinberg UR22C manages to squeeze about as much performance out of its lesser CS4270 as one can reasonably expect, so the headphone output still ends up making a better line-level source than the gen3 Focusrite's. Universal Audio Volt 1 would be another generally solid CS4272 based option, actually its headphone driver seems robust enough that it should not break too much of a sweat even driving the 13 ohm Sonys directly (which otherwise I would only entrust the Audients with); do note that ASIO drivers are only available after registering though.
 
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