what can room threatment do for my bass

[gasolin75]

I don't know much about room acoustics,optimizing a room but heres my system

Pc with wharfdale diamond 12.2 i on isoacoustics stands using room corrected with a wiim ultra streamer + a vibelink + smsl po100 2024 usb to spdif quality cables

It's just that with a quality mic room fit (room correction) down to 35hz (rated specs say +/- 3 db 50hz and -6 db 43hz) it's not close to rated specs

Extreme heavy mid bass room fit 332hz -4.5 db 221 -6.3 db 186 hz -4.6db

Opposite in the bass, extrem low (volume) bass,deep voices 124hz + 3.7db, 66 hz at it's limit, the settings is limited to + 10 db and that is what room fit used, 53 hz +3.2db

bass is fine down to 50 hz just about flat, from there down to 33-34hz ish it's down by 20db more than 10db down at 40hz

Question: What can room threatment do for my bass so room fit don't have to raise bass as much, lower midbass, lower midrange (150-300hz) just takes some load out of the amp,speakers but adds load on the amp,speakers but raisng the bass, which i think would give me more quality bass if bass would only be raised by a few db or even lowered by a few db

Having a hard time imagine room threatment would add bass to my system that needs +10 db at 66hz and mabye more if adjustments wheren't limited to 10 db up and down

 

[xlb250]

There won’t be much difference unless you add tons of deep bass traps. You can find case studies online. Speaker and seat position are much more important. Subwoofer can help below 100hz.

 

[Keith_W]

You are better off with multiple subwoofers if your concern is bass roll-off below 50Hz. You haven't shown us any measurements to indicate you have a problem with your bass that needs room treatment. FYI: if your room has openings to other rooms, or has large windows, you can think of those as "bass traps". About the only people who need bass traps are people who live in concrete bunkers or similar.

 

[smygolf]

Quarter way tubes can with optimal placement lower a mode with ~3dB.
It also have the tendency to raise nulls a tad.

It is room dependent off course.
To test it is fairly simple and does not cost much.

 

[sigbergaudio]

I'm not sure I understand the graphs. The graph below, does it show the room response without correction, or does it show the correction applied by the software?

 

[ZolaIII]

Why to hell you set up speakers to small room width? Put it to its length, get room fundamental to be lower and use it a little bit to push where speakers can't keep up. In order to even reach main bass area with accustic treatment box for it needs to be 30 cm (12") deep multy layer padded with mesh. With limited treatment you can get; summed highs, better mids with SPL reduction in that frequently range. If you look at it the other way then you have more freadom to EQ lows as there will be more of it. For room mode and bass it's get more bass (sub's), work on their placement, carefully do crossover to follow phase (or manipulate phase so it's like that) and use PEQ and for peeks only, max gain for deeps shouldn't exide +2 and only if you must.
Only way to in room not feal it's fundamental is direct in front of you placed in near field sub and only to where you sit of course. Boosting speakers +10 dB out of woofer direct response (what it can't do on it's own in the first place) is ludicrous.

 

[Keith_W]

I'm not sure I understand the graphs. The graph below, does it show the room response without correction, or does it show the correction applied by the software?

Those are PEQ's. You can tell from the pointy shape with left/right symmetry. The freq response is in the second image he posted.

 

[sigbergaudio]

Those are PEQ's. You can tell from the pointy shape with left/right symmetry. The freq response is in the second image he posted.

Yes, ok. Result is probably simulated then (?) - looked a bit too good to be true. And "fixing" 150-300hz area like that probably won't sound good.

@gasolin75 You won't be able to fix sub 100-150hz with treatment, but luckily it seems you have no dips below 100hz, so that's great.

probably not that much to do with 150-300hz either if this is a desktop/desk setup (did I understand that correctly)? Lack of bottom end probably requires a sub or different speakers.

 

[Sokel]

wharfedale diamond 12.2 i is all you use? No subs or I missed that?

I think you're asking way too much from 2 small speakers if that so.

 

[gasolin75]

I only use wharfedale diamond 12.2 i

My room is just effecting bass and midbass and lower midrange in such a way that i benefit from room correction

Nothing wrong with the speakers

Wharfedale Diamond 12.1 Review (Speaker)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Wharfedale Diamond 12.1 bookshelf speaker. It was kindly purchased by a member and drop shipped to me. It costs US $399 for a pair. The look and feel of the 12.1 is definitely above the budget category: The back is rather pedestrian but...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[gasolin75]

 

[Mort]

What can room threatment do for my bass so room fit don't have to raise bass as much,

Room treatment is used to reduce and diffuse energy, not raise it.

Nothing wrong with the speakers

No but they appear to be insufficient for your needs and aren't the right tool for the job based on your question.
You need a sub or full range speakers.
Nothing wrong with that.

 

[goat76]

@gasolin75

You are asking about room treatment, but you don't provide any graph showing what's happening in the time domain of your room. If it's mainly the frequency response curve you are concerned about, the most effective tool is using an EQ.

 

[gasolin75]

I guess at 60hz it's more than 5 db down asr review of the 12.1 is down by 5 db at 60hz = better room ?

40hz down by 15 db, mine is between 15 and 20db down, more than 15db but less than 20db down, room corrected around 15 db

Stock say -6 db at 43hz bass it does more than ok to get more, around 12khz and up not so much (not that everyone can hear 16khz)

I don't have any tools and experience to do time domain as i think many normal people don't have the tools, skills to measure,show if some want's to know about time domain

 

[gasolin75]

Down to 50hz is okay room corrected, i just wish it could do it without having to do it that extreme, less load on the amp and speakers

See the peg stereo mode

Based on raw performance i would be interested in tryingdon to 60 hz to hear if it would make a differnce for how much room fit raises the bass and how "cleaner" it sound at high levels it is flat from just under 60hz and down to 47-48hz

When doing room correction what smoothing do i have to use ? (haven't googled what the last 3 means and have no idea what the fisrt 3 does and the difference)

 

[janbth]

When doing room correction what smoothing do i have to use ? (haven't googled what the last 3 means and have no idea what the fisrt 3 does and the difference)

I don’t know how RoomFit works, but a similar question pops up for REW, so I will answer based on that.

REW can compute PEQ filters in the EQ window, and the computed filters depend on what smoothing you choose for the measured response, i.e. the input to the filter computation. So what smoothing should you use? For low frequencies, let’s say less than 150-200 Hz, the answer is: No smoothing. In REW, you can use Var smoothing (no smoothing (or is it 1/48 smoothing?) below 100 Hz). My guess is that Variable in RoomFit is similar.

Why no (or 1/48) smoothing? This is because room resonances tend to be dominant features in the frequency response below the transition frequency of the room (the Schroeder frequency). Let’s take a peak in the response as an example. These are characterized by their Q-value (the width of the peak). A PEQ filter to take down a peak needs to have the same Q-value. However, if you apply smoothing, the peaks will appear to have larger Q-values. This will lead to an incorrectly computed filter.

 

[goat76]

I don't have any tools and experience to do time domain as i think many normal people don't have the tools, skills to measure,show if some want's to know about time domain

I suggest you download REW and buy a microphone. It's really not that hard to learn after some trial and error, and many people on this forum can help you if you have any questions. I think there are threads here describing the basics of REW.

It looks like you are lacking energy below 150 Hz, and the real solution is to adjust your listening position and your loudspeakers' placement until you find a better starting point. The best is if you find a listening and speaker positioning with as even a bass response as possible, but it doesn't hurt if there is a bit too much energy in the lower frequency area, as that is easy to cut down with EQ, which in turn will reduce the strain on your speakers.

In REW, you have an EQ section that can automatically suggest filters, which I have found works really well.

There are also windows in REW that let you see what's happening in the time domain, which is the main focus when it comes to room acoustics. In a normal living room situation, it's usually very hard to do something about the frequency area under 100 Hz or so, but it's not that hard to even out the time response above that with some acoustic panels, a thick rug, some thick curtains, and normal furniture. The under 100 Hz area is usually easier to solve with EQ, and even if the measurements show some severe problems under 50 Hz, most music tracks have a steep decline of energy in that area, making it less of a problem than it looks like in the measurements.

It can actually be quite fun to learn and get the hang of how REW works. At first, it may look like the program has a steep learning curve, but after the initial steps, I'm sure you will get it.

 

[gasolin75]

Did experiment with the new settings (smoothing) makes a difference

Psychoacoustics, taget curve BK and limit down to 35hz -10 db is under 40hz thats is close to specs that say 43hz -6db (might be better than -6db at 43hz by a db or 2)

Highs rolloff helps making it warmer,less bright besides who can hear 16khz

 

[gasolin75]

 

[gasolin75]

As some has mentioned the diamond can have some inperfection in the finish, i did notice that on my 12.2i (ocd)

Im therefor playing on my 12.1i.

Slightly less bass but still down to 50hz close to flat mabye -3 db

Same sensitivity,power, 12 o'clock on my vibelink with 80% volume limit on my streamer, midrange is really good on the 12.1i

1/3 octave 35hz limit bk target curve

In my room i 100% perfer the size of the 12.1i than the bigger 12.2i

Quick update, get a subwoofer if you use the 12.0(i) the 12.1 (i) perfect balance, more easy to get a flat fr with room correction

12.2 (i) just a little bigger and more bass