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What are the best amp options to drive KEF R3?

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Amir has tested some of the AVR's - and the Denon's do rate very well - don't know how well the measurements compare to the claimed specs ... look in the Review index.

The Denon's were on my short list, but the Integra was about 30% cheaper here in Australia, and I wanted to try Dirac rather than give Audyssey another go after 15 years of disappointment with it. (and I have been very happy with Dirac!)
i am stuck kinda with Denon brand, its much easier to buy used krell

So here is the deal,
i can get used krell fully serviced for the price of used Denon,
krell model and specs are

Krell KAV-400xi
krell is around almost 20 years old it will hold value like a tank

Solid-state, remote-controlled, stereo integrated amplifier with 5 line-level inputs (1 balanced, 3 single-ended, 1 single-ended tape loop) and 1 set of single-ended preamplifier outputs. Power output: 200Wpc into 8 ohms (23dBW), 400Wpc into 4 ohms (23dBW). Output impedance: 0.17 ohm. THD: 1kHz <0.04%; 20kHz <0.25%. Input impedance: 47k ohms. Input sensitivity: 644mV RMS. Power consumption at idle/standby: 20W.

Same price as Used Denon, both no warranty Krell fully serviced.
FREQUENCY RESPONSE 20 Hz–20 kHz +0 dB, -0.07 dB SIGNAL-TO-NOISE RATIO “A” weighted 99 dB TOTAL HARMONIC DISTORTION (THD) 20 Hz–20 kHz 1 kHz <0.04% 20 kHz <0.25% GAIN 35.8 dB INPUT SENSITIVITY 0.644 Vrms INPUT IMPEDANCE 47 kOhms OUTPUT IMPEDANCE 0.17 Ohms POWER CONSUM

how worse is the krell compared to Denon is it worth the money?


Denon is almost sold worldwide new or used, i sended offer to ebay last night
and today unit is gone.......
 
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dlaloum

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The Krell will be a classic if it isn't already - it will maintain value far better than the Denon... and should be great in Stereo.

Great for a minimalist system.
 
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The Krell will be a classic if it isn't already - it will maintain value far better than the Denon... and should be great in Stereo.

Great for a minimalist system.
i am really pissed off with these Denon units
they are either sold out everyone or sellers doesnt want to ship or when i send offer after few hours they are bought...
so doesnt exist anymore..... its even harder to get them than Krell..
Should i go with Krell ?
its heavy unit with a lot of power consumption
big electricity bills at 1800w

how worse will be sound compared to Denon?
 

dlaloum

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i am really pissed off with these Denon units
they are either sold out everyone or sellers doesnt want to ship or when i send offer after few hours they are bought...
so doesnt exist anymore..... its even harder to get them than Krell..
Should i go with Krell ?
its heavy unit with a lot of power consumption
big electricity bills at 1800w

how worse will be sound compared to Denon?

The Denon AVR's are in short supply as they have been clearing out stock for some time now in preparation for the release of the new models... - which is why they are hard to get.

Only way to tell which is better/worse is back to back comparison...

The Denon brings Audyssey into the mix - which the Krell does not - that alone might make a substantial audible difference.

Without Room/Speaker EQ active, I would lay bets on the Krell having the edge... but it could well be a very close race, and in blind testing might not be audibly different.
 
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The Denon AVR's are in short supply as they have been clearing out stock for some time now in preparation for the release of the new models... - which is why they are hard to get.

Only way to tell which is better/worse is back to back comparison...

The Denon brings Audyssey into the mix - which the Krell does not - that alone might make a substantial audible difference.

Without Room/Speaker EQ active, I would lay bets on the Krell having the edge... but it could well be a very close race, and in blind testing might not be audibly different.
Krell is more powerfull almost 2 times
so instead of Denon 105 w it have 200 w or power,
, so i need to use denon to the maximum limit and i can use krill way less than his maximum potencial, how about thd and harmonic distortion who is the winner there?
i dont care much about eq gimmicks.
i have these in my car and i never use them with mics to measure room, and speakers etcs.
 

mglobe

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Good looking and value will remain high, but so will it’s distortion.


Since you are putting so much weight on resale, look into the NAD 2200, 2600, or 2700. If you can find one and also someone in the EU to recondition it you will have a much better amp.

 
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Good looking and value will remain high, but so will it’s distortion.


Since you are putting so much weight on resale, look into the NAD 2200, 2600, or 2700. If you can find one and also someone in the EU to recondition it you will have a much better amp.

I will check out later today but krell is already reconditioned repaired.
 

Joe Smith

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I think you are much too worried about a) power and b) resale value/the brand badge. Those KEFs are going to sound good in your medium size room with an amp with a lot less power than the Krell amp. Distortion, high energy consumption, a more difficult thing to repair - wow, what's not to like?
 

Joe Smith

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This statement in the Stereophile review would also give me pause: "The Krell is one of an increasing number of wide-dynamic-range amplifiers that do not have sufficient heatsink area to allow continuous high-power operation. This tradeoff may permit a product to be competitively priced—using appropriately sized heatsinks for a 200Wpc amplifier would significantly increase its cost—but it needs to be pointed out. While it is unlikely the Krell will overheat in normal use, it may well do so when used for a party."
 
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This statement in the Stereophile review would also give me pause: "The Krell is one of an increasing number of wide-dynamic-range amplifiers that do not have sufficient heatsink area to allow continuous high-power operation. This tradeoff may permit a product to be competitively priced—using appropriately sized heatsinks for a 200Wpc amplifier would significantly increase its cost—but it needs to be pointed out. While it is unlikely the Krell will overheat in normal use, it may well do so when used for a party."
I will not use krell for party. I will use it less than 200w per channel so i can leave some spare capacity item is fully reconditioned all condesators are replaced etcs,

denon i will use to full maximum power and it overheat probably same or more than krell due to the fact thats crammed inside a lot of owners complain that overheat and it needs fan , they bought fans already...
if i use krell at 60-70% of his power capacity will it overheat as well?
 

DavidEdwinAston

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I will not use krell for party. I will use it less than 200w per channel so i can leave some spare capacity item is fully reconditioned all condesators are replaced etcs,

denon i will use to full maximum power and it overheat probably same or more than krell due to the fact thats crammed inside a lot of owners complain that overheat and it needs fan , they bought fans already...
if i use krell at 60-70% of his power capacity will it overheat as well?
"My understanding of ASR, is that any amplifier you buy will "sound", the same as any other amplifier. So, just buy a top pick, from this site, and enjoy!
 
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i have found for 500 euro used NAD 2200, and 2600 same price, is it a good buy?
is it worth the money,
no warranty, not sure if it ever had swapped any components is this better than krell and in same level or better than Denon??


in these link you can check out the visual condition etcs.. i think both no remotes etcs...

i also found unit from ebay in great condition 200 euro more expensive it have serviced recently history etcs...
i am talking about 2600 nad is it worth the money arent the unit too old please advice i need some lolipop for my speakers.
 
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dlaloum

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This statement in the Stereophile review would also give me pause: "The Krell is one of an increasing number of wide-dynamic-range amplifiers that do not have sufficient heatsink area to allow continuous high-power operation. This tradeoff may permit a product to be competitively priced—using appropriately sized heatsinks for a 200Wpc amplifier would significantly increase its cost—but it needs to be pointed out. While it is unlikely the Krell will overheat in normal use, it may well do so when used for a party."
Not much different to most modern Class-D designs... they are so efficient under normal conditions, that designers don't bother with heatsinks...

But if you are going to run an amp at 100W+ non stop for hours, you have to have heatsinks - no matter how efficient it is

So the Krell just reflects much of the current zeitgeist in amp designs.... and mostly, that's OK. But you do get situations like the Onkyo RZ50 review by Amir, where the device goes into "Nanny" mode self protection after a period of driving 4 ohm output at 5W....

It would be nice of the standard Hypex/Purify/ICE modules were configured so they could easily be fitted to proper Heatsink amp cases...
 
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Onkyo is cool item but not available in Europe , so my options are nad 2600 or nad 2700 but do i need dual aux port for them or what? Used not sure when more repairs i will need or used denin 3700 at around 1200-400€ , krell is too much money for used item and not sure how it will perform... the most expensive no service repairs history just words from the seller no documents..
 

Galliardist

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A couple of quick notes:
1) I found Muso 2's for sale in the Eurozone, new, for under 1100 Euros. You should consider dropping your price, at a guess.

2) I wouldn't worry too much about resale value, unless you plan to upgrade later for reasons of capability/features rather than sound quality.
Buy new and worry about the guarantee - not so much length as being able to return the product easily and for a fast repair or replacement. As you don't have a fallback amp to use, buying used is a bigger risk than if you are buying a replacement/upgrade used.

3) DId you buy the Mu-so locally or from a recognised dealer? If they do part exchange, you might find that the dealer will give you a good price - not so much for the Mu-so, but you may get a big discount on a Naim stereo amp. While it will still push your budget, it may be worth a try.
 
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A couple of quick notes:
1) I found Muso 2's for sale in the Eurozone, new, for under 1100 Euros. You should consider dropping your price, at a guess.

2) I wouldn't worry too much about resale value, unless you plan to upgrade later for reasons of capability/features rather than sound quality.
Buy new and worry about the guarantee - not so much length as being able to return the product easily and for a fast repair or replacement. As you don't have a fallback amp to use, buying used is a bigger risk than if you are buying a replacement/upgrade used.

3) DId you buy the Mu-so locally or from a recognised dealer? If they do part exchange, you might find that the dealer will give you a good price - not so much for the Mu-so, but you may get a big discount on a Naim stereo amp. While it will still push your budget, it may be worth a try.
My muso is brand new from abroad,
i will not ship it abroad because shipping is expensive + another again custom fees etcs...
my current price for muso is around 1000 euro,
So i will buy
new or used amplifier not sure what yet it will be, nad used , or Denon.
Or something else.
 

HarmonicTHD

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My muso is brand new from abroad,
i will not ship it abroad because shipping is expensive + another again custom fees etcs...
my current price for muso is around 1000 euro,
So i will buy
new or used amplifier not sure what yet it will be, nad used , or Denon.
Or something else.
Isn’t Bulgaria in the Eu? So why worry about custom fees?

I am also surprised that you have such difficulties getting the Denon, if this is what you want. A quick google search of 4 major EU countries showed that the Denon is in stock at at least 3 to 4 dealers per country. They all accept PayPal and ship within the EU. Prices around 1400EUR new. And most dealer offer even English as a language option in on their websites. Also Onkyo is available in the EU.

Where do you look? You do have PayPal do you? Do you only look for used ones?

Wouldn’t you also have buying problems with any other brand if it is not available in Bulgaria?
 
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Isn’t Bulgaria in the Eu? So why worry about custom fees?

I am also surprised that you have such difficulties getting the Denon, if this is what you want. A quick google search of 4 major EU countries showed that the Denon is in stock at at least 3 to 4 dealers per country. They all accept PayPal and ship within the EU. Prices around 1400EUR new. And most dealer offer even English as a language option in on their websites. Also Onkyo is available in the EU.

Where do you look? You do have PayPal do you? Do you only look for used ones?

Wouldn’t you also have buying problems with any other brand if it is not available in Bulgaria?
Uk left EU and my muso is from uk so i payed expensive shipping and custom fees etcs


if i buy nad 2600 what streamer option i can buy in order to be compatible with nad 2600 and ios i want to have airplay from apple?

my kef speakers are also from uk Onkyo the model i liked is us only unfortunately some models are available for europe some are not.i almost sealed the deal with nad 2600 500euro fully serviced recently?
 
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I also like older sony amps not sure which model is great from year 1970 till 2002 something,
i also like pioneer older amps one of my favourites is pioneer a9 i am attaching his specs, i think it can beat nad 2600 in terms of reliability and quality i like the build much more.


1662418834023.png
 

Galliardist

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Uk left EU and my muso is from uk so i payed expensive shipping and custom fees etcs
Ah. That explains a lot.

Are there no dealers in Bulgaria handling decent equipment in your price range?
I know there are a couple of "audiophile" manufacturers of expensive stuff, but that won't help you
 
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