What’s Up with Modern Audio Releases?

[Anton S]

Incidentally, and not that I personally hold AI responses in high esteem, but it appears that Google's Gemini agrees with my opinion that modern audio releases have moved away from an emphasis on realism toward a more surreal sound. In keeping with Amir's OP in his thread Informal policy on use of AI thread, here's the rundown ...

My Google inquiry using the Chrome browser:

“are modern music releases realistic or real sounding?”

Response from Gemini:

Modern music releases often prioritize an exciting, impactful sound over a realistic or "real-sounding" one. While older recordings from the analogue era sometimes created a naturalistic reproduction of a performance, modern techniques intentionally create a "hyperreal" sound that is bigger, louder, and more polished than a live performance.

This artificial quality in modern releases is a result of many factors related to contemporary production and consumption habits.

Modern music processing techniques

• Compression: A key technique in modern music is dynamic range compression, which makes the quietest parts of a song as loud as the loudest parts. This reduces the dynamic range and makes the track consistently loud and energetic, ensuring it grabs attention on radio or streaming services. However, this can also make the sound fatiguing and less nuanced.
• Layering and overdubbing: Instead of capturing a single live performance, modern music is often built layer-by-layer. Instruments and vocals are recorded individually, processed heavily, and then mixed together. This allows for a pristine and polished sound, but it loses the natural timing variations and acoustic ambience of a live band performance.
• Auto-Tune and pitch correction: Digital tools like Auto-Tune are routinely used to perfect vocal tracks. This makes vocals perfectly in tune but can strip them of their natural character and emotive imperfections.
• Rhythmic quantization: In many genres, digital sequencing and quantizing are used to make every beat perfectly in time. This provides a tight, locked-in groove but lacks the subtle timing fluctuations that give a live human performance its soul.

Shift in musical priorities

• Democratization of production: The availability of powerful, affordable recording software has moved music production out of professional studios and into home setups. While this has enabled countless new artists, a decline in average production skill means that many recordings lack the artistic touch of an experienced, old-school mixing engineer.
• Focus on instrumentation: A 2012 study by the Spanish National Research Council analyzed music from 1955 to 2010 and found that timbral diversity (the variety of instrument sounds) has drastically declined since the 1960s. Modern pop music, in particular, often relies on the same core electronic elements like a keyboard, drum machine, and sampler.
• Competition for attention: In the age of streaming, an artist has just seconds to grab a listener's attention before they skip to the next song. This has influenced production choices, leading to louder, more compressed mixes with hooks arriving earlier in the song to make it instantly appealing.

Subjective debate and artist's intent

Whether this "hyperreal" sound is good or bad is subjective and depends on the genre.

• In some genres, the artificial, processed sound is part of the artistic vision. Modern electronic, pop, and rap music are intentionally stylized and would lose their energy if they were stripped of effects.
• In other genres, the lack of dynamics and the polished sound can be seen as "fatiguing," "lifeless," or "boring". Many listeners who prefer the sound of older rock or jazz recordings value the natural dynamics and character captured by analogue techniques.

​

 

[Sal1950]

• lose their energy if they were stripped of effects.
• In other genres, the lack of dynamics and the polished sound can be seen as "fatiguing," "lifeless," or "boring". Many listeners who prefer the sound of older rock or jazz recordings value the natural dynamics and character captured by analogue techniques.

In the older recordings there's also the lack (softening of) detail and extended top end that makes them sound smoother but are in reality is just a distortion of the source (not a true accurate mirror of the sound of live music.) AKA tube sound because that what all the pro recording gear then used.
Would you really want to go back to Phil Spectors (RIP) "Wall of Sound" days? Much of his music sounds very good on great gear but is also very revealing of it's inherent weaknesses.

 

[IngMishael]

How did this pretty straightforward question lead to such meandering lol.

Fascinating read.

My two cents: Audio has become generally brighter, more in your face and that is tiring after a while. Smiley face looking spectrum with emphasis on sibilance and glare regions have become a stylistic approach for the modern mix.

And yes it's generalizing but that's what I've observed especially when I obsessed with seeing the music spectrum as a song played. There's a lot of 3 to 10kHz amplitude in modern mixes generally

 

[Anton S]

In the older recordings there's also the lack (softening of) detail and extended top end that makes them sound smoother but are in reality is just a distortion of the source (not a true accurate mirror of the sound of live music.) AKA tube sound because that what all the pro recording gear then used.
Would you really want to go back to Phil Spectors (RIP) "Wall of Sound" days? Much of his music sounds very good on great gear but is also very revealing of it's inherent weaknesses.

I think all bets are off when it comes to electronic instruments in general and synths in particular. Who knows what sounds "realistic" when there's no grounding in the physical world? I can make a judgement with respect to whether or not it sounds harsh and edgy to me, but not as to any sort of realism when the "live" sound can be altered dramatically with the twist of a knob or push of a button.

Thrash rock and heavy metal have always sounded harsh to me and have never been my listening choices. I got dragged to a Metallica concert one time and couldn't hear properly for two weeks.

 

[IngMishael]

I think all bets are off when it comes to electronic instruments in general and synths in particular. Who knows what sounds "realistic" when there's no grounding in the physical world? I can make a judgement with respect to whether or not it shoulds harsh and edgy to me, but not as to any sort of realism when the "live" sound can be altered dramatically with the twist of a knob or push of a button.

Thrash rock and heavy metal have always sounded harsh to me and have never been my listening choices. I got dragged to a Metallica concert one time and couldn't hear properly for two weeks.

Front of House expertise is also middling nowadays.

I've gone to concerts that are loud but dynamic, and without discomfort outside of the SPL (reason I have earplugs for concerts)
.and I've gone to some with the DSP cooked so much everything sounds like nails on chalkboard

 

[Sal1950]

I think all bets are off when it comes to electronic instruments in general and synths in particular. Who knows what sounds "realistic" when there's no grounding in the physical world?

I've listened to that argument for decades now but in reality it's easy, does the recording accurately mirror the sound the mic/artists/engineer heard in the studio? Who knows what the true sound of a symphony orchestra is when there's 40 or 50 of them all playing at the same time?

Thrash rock and heavy metal have always sounded harsh to me and have never been my listening choices. I got dragged to a Metallica concert one time and couldn't hear properly for two weeks.

Well of course it does, that's the way the artists play it. I haven't liked or listened to heavy metal since Ozzy left Black Sabbath back in 1979 LOL
I really don't know why you bring something like that up except to distort the discussion.
For every metal bands back then there were 2 or 3 Elton John, James Taylor, Joni Michell, Linda Ronstadt, B B King, Bobby Bland, Chicago, Carly Simon, C,S,N, Doobie Bros, Eagles, ELP, Yes. Jefferson Airplane, Junior Wells, Marvin Gaye ----- must I go on.
No dig on the metalheads but Heavy Metal had never defined popular music then or now.

 

[Anton S]

I've listened to that argument for decades now but in reality it's easy, does the recording accurately mirror the sound the mic/artists/engineer heard in the studio? Who knows what the true sound of a symphony orchestra is when there's 40 or 50 of them all playing at the same time?

That is nothing but obfuscation on your part. How do I know what an electronic performance sounded like in the studio? How do you, considering all the multitracking, overdubbing, etc? You may know what a "performance" sounded like in the studio after all of the manipulation, but how do I or anyone else who wasn't there? No frame of reference, period, so how does one know if a system is on the money or way off?

Having spent considerable time in not only music halls listening to acoustic performances, but also many small clubs where the music was performed au natural, sans amplification, I think I have a reasonable handle on what acoustic instruments sound like, but what does a solid body guitar sound like without an amp (and usually effects pedals)? And I'd like to hear a synth make any music at all without a boatload of electronics behind it.

Well of course it does, that's the way the artists play it. I haven't liked or listened to heavy metal since Ozzy left Black Sabbath back in 1979 LOL
I really don't know why you bring something like that up except to distort the discussion.
For every metal bands back then there were 2 or 3 Elton John, James Taylor, Joni Michell, Linda Ronstadt, B B King, Bobby Bland, Chicago, Carly Simon, C,S,N, Doobie Bros, Eagles, ELP, Yes. Jefferson Airplane, Junior Wells, Marvin Gaye ----- must I go on.
No dig on the metalheads but Heavy Metal had never defined popular music then or now.

Wasn't it obvious to you that I named thrash and heavy metal as examples of music that sounds harsh to me? Isn't that exactly what I said?

 

[Soniclife]

How do I know what an electronic performance sounded like in the studio?

I cannot explain how the brain knows, but it does. I've just been listening to a new to me electric album, no real instruments, at one point I remembered to try a DSP tweak I've been considering, 1dB less correction on a single PEQ, it sounded less accurate to me with the change, the next album, much more conventional pop rock, and I have the same opinion. I've not seen any research to show this isn't true, the what types of music are best for detecting problems research sort of suggests it wouldn't be, but electronic wasn't included.

'Critical (Best) Music Tracks for Speaker and Room EQ Testing'

Feb 14, 2016

I post the list of tracks Harman uses after literally decades of research to detect fidelity of speakers and room Auto Equalizers in another thread but thought it deserves its own thread. I have had the fortunate luck of sitting through a couple of their blind tests and can attest to the efficacy of the tracks used:

---------

AES Paper, The Subjective and Objective Evaluation of Room Correction Products
Sean E. Olive, John Jackson, Allan Devantier, David Hunt, and Sean M. Hess

JW - Jennifer Warnes, “Bird on a Wire”
TC - Tracy Chapman, “Fast Car”
JW - James Taylor, “That’s Why...

• amirm
• playlist test tracks tidal
• Replies: 400
• Forum: Audio Reference Library

• 

 

[Anton S]

I cannot explain how the brain knows, but it does. I've just been listening to a new to me electric album, no real instruments, at one point I remembered to try a DSP tweak I've been considering, 1dB less correction on a single PEQ, it sounded less accurate to me with the change, the next album, much more conventional pop rock, and I have the same opinion. I've not seen any research to show this isn't true, the what types of music are best for detecting problems research sort of suggests it wouldn't be, but electronic wasn't included.

'Critical (Best) Music Tracks for Speaker and Room EQ Testing'

Feb 14, 2016

I post the list of tracks Harman uses after literally decades of research to detect fidelity of speakers and room Auto Equalizers in another thread but thought it deserves its own thread. I have had the fortunate luck of sitting through a couple of their blind tests and can attest to the efficacy of the tracks used:

---------

AES Paper, The Subjective and Objective Evaluation of Room Correction Products
Sean E. Olive, John Jackson, Allan Devantier, David Hunt, and Sean M. Hess

JW - Jennifer Warnes, “Bird on a Wire”
TC - Tracy Chapman, “Fast Car”
JW - James Taylor, “That’s Why...

• amirm
• playlist test tracks tidal
• Replies: 400
• Forum: Audio Reference Library

• 

Less "accurate?" Sorry I can't buy that with respect to electronic instruments. No frame of reference in the physical world. Less enjoyable for whatever reason, sure. Trying to prove your conclusion isn't true would be sheer folly, so I won't even attempt that.

 

[Sal1950]

How do I know what an electronic performance sounded like in the studio? How do you, considering all the multitracking, overdubbing, etc?

You don't and neither do I, I didn't say that.
And you have little chance of really knowing what the sound of 50 musicians jamming at once is.
The amount of minimalist perfectionist style recordings being done today is near zilch. Classical and jazz is multracked nearly as much as any other.
And with classical, so much for the better, to record a symphony with a single blumlein pair is next to impossible to do well.

I think I have a reasonable handle on what acoustic instruments sound like, but what does a solid body guitar sound like without an amp (and usually effects pedals)? And I'd like to hear a synth make any music at all without a boatload of electronics behind it.

Maybe, maybe not. Do you think you can identify one quality violin or viola from another. There are about 30 playing in a symphony, could you tell me what models each are playing, how many of each their are, what can your really id out of this? If your really as good as you think, yes you might id one from another in a rapidly switched recording of each one on individual tracks but when we get into the real world of recorded music things become much more complicated.

Wasn't it obvious to you that I named thrash and heavy metal as examples of music that sounds harsh to me? Isn't that exactly what I said?

More like you were using metal recordings to highlight how bad you think popular music sounds in general.
It's harsh and hurts your ears. but then what has that to do with this thread?

That's what this thread is, a generalization that really has little value to teach anyone anything.

 

[Anton S]

None of your latest gaslghting deserves a reply, so this is what you get. If all you want to do is twist what I say and take pot shots, why don't you just exit my thread?

 

[Sal1950]

None of your latest gaslghting deserves a reply, so this is what you get. If all you want to do is twist what I say and take pot shots, why don't you just exit my thread?

Me thinks we have the pot calling the kettle black. LOL

 

[Matt S]

How did this pretty straightforward question lead to such meandering lol.

Fascinating read.

My two cents: Audio has become generally brighter, more in your face and that is tiring after a while. Smiley face looking spectrum with emphasis on sibilance and glare regions have become a stylistic approach for the modern mix.

And yes it's generalizing but that's what I've observed especially when I obsessed with seeing the music spectrum as a song played. There's a lot of 3 to 10kHz amplitude in modern mixes generally

Meandering - true! Such a simple question led to lots of keyboard warrioring.

I too find a lot of recent music to sound either harsh, bright and/or tiring. Likewise a lot of older tracks come across as perhaps a little soft.

Anton, have you seen some of the analysis by forum member Jean François? His excellent work might at least partially help to answer your question.

 

[Anton S]

Meandering - true! Such a simple question led to lots of keyboard warrioring.

I too find a lot of recent music to sound either harsh, bright and/or tiring. Likewise a lot of older tracks come across as perhaps a little soft.

Anton, have you seen some of the analysis by forum member Jean François? His excellent work might at least partially help to answer your question.

Thanks, Matt. No, I've not. But I'll look for him.

 

[Chr1]

Seems like another thread where people try to analyse why they don't like a particular genre or era of music. And rather than recognise the subjective nature of musical taste, we try to find some kind of objective fault with it. Badly recorded. Harsh or whatever.
Rather than simply recognise that it is not what we like stylistically. Subjectively.

To me, "modern music" is not harsh, bright or tiring. Like most eras: Some is... Some isn't.
There's some massive generalisations going on here.
The term "modern music" for one. Covers a lot surely.

 

[Matt S]

Seems like another thread where people try to analyse why they don't like a particular genre or era of music. And rather than recognise the subjective nature of musical taste, we try to find some kind of objective fault with it. Badly recorded. Harsh or whatever.
Rather than simply recognise that it is not what we like stylistically. Subjectively.

To me, "modern music" is not harsh, bright or tiring. Like most eras: Some is... Some isn't.
There's some massive generalisations going on here.
The term "modern music" for one. Covers a lot surely.

Disagree completely. Some of the music I enjoy the most, might not sound the best. Some tracks I enjoy less, might sound fantastic.

The loudness wars are/were a thing.

 

[Sal1950]

The loudness wars are/were a thing

At least for the music I listen to, I find the L-W a very minor, near non-issue.
When I've done my homework I can most always find a digital mix that hasn't been crushed.
Of course if you listen to Rap, Hip-Hop, and Taylor Swift pop type styles, in many if not most cases it's unavoidable,, that is what the artists want you to hear. I think I've mentioned before how Mark Waldrep of AIX records has been piss-off by artists-labels returning his mixes 2 and 3 times with instructions to "Make It Louder".
If you go to the DR DB site and click on the first DR column to sort them that way, this is what you get., Such is life.

 

[Multicore]

^^^ that is awesome.

I suddenly remember (guess why!) that The Young Ones was full of sitcom pastiche. Apart from The Good Life (which actually stands up well today) there's this (starting 5:35) which is almost exactly the same as the opening scene from The Strange World of Gurney Slade

 

[Multicore]

How did this pretty straightforward question lead to such meandering lol.

It was not a st8 forward question. Meandering is the best.

 

[mhardy6647]

Indeed.
Drums and Space -- as the Grateful Dead's fans knew it.