Wharfedale Super Denton

[tsfreo]

I realise you don't have any measurement data, but what do you prefer about the super dentins over the dbr62? I've got the latter plus sub, sounds great but I've got a large room and thinking of getting larger speakers and being less reliant on a sub.
I've got an acoustically challenging room and so use the Wiim room correction feature which works pretty well.

Hey Bernard, I can't send you a properly thoughtful response about the differences just now. I'm a bit pressed for time for the next few days.
But I will say that if you are looking for something that makes you less subwoofer reliant than you are with the DBR62s then the Supers probably won't really do that for you. They are a small three way speaker - but their woofer is the same size as the DBR62s and they don't particularly dig deep into the lower registers. I still use a sub with mine. Check out Erin's data on your speakers and the Super Dentons (incl at about 8 minutes in his video review of the Super Dentons) and you will see what I mean (and that matches my experience).
Large room, if you like the Wharfedale sound from this series, then I would choose the Linton 85th edition. I see what you are thinking about larger speakers so you are less sub reliant. As you know many bookshelf speakers can struggle a bit in a large room (notwithstanding any other acoustic challenges about your space).
Might be floorstander time (or big standmount like the Lintons).

 

[Bernard23]

Hey Bernard, I can't send you a properly thoughtful response about the differences just now. I'm a bit pressed for time for the next few days.
But I will say that if you are looking for something that makes you less subwoofer reliant than you are with the DBR62s then the Supers probably won't really do that for you. They are a small three way speaker - but their woofer is the same size as the DBR62s and they don't particularly dig deep into the lower registers. I still use a sub with mine. Check out Erin's data on your speakers and the Super Dentons (incl at about 8 minutes in his video review of the Super Dentons) and you will see what I mean (and that matches my experience).
Large room, if you like the Wharfedale sound from this series, then I would choose the Linton 85th edition. I see what you are thinking about larger speakers so you are less sub reliant. As you know many bookshelf speakers can struggle a bit in a large room (notwithstanding any other acoustic challenges about your space).
Might be floorstander time (or big standmount like the Lintons).

Thanks for taking the time to provide this answer, it's helpful!

 

[Rednaxela]

At the end of his review, Erin states:

My overall impression is that these do sound good but they do have some deviations from “perfectly neutral”.

It makes me wonder what would be needed to make them appear more neutral sounding? Is it possible at all? Desirable even?

These Super Dentons caught my eye as a possible replacement for my current bookshelves. Their form factor, build quality and the fact that they're three way appeal to me. However I do struggle somewhat to work out how modern day text book they are, something that I thought I wanted my next speakers to be. Note how Erin continues:

With these deviations, still, check out that Preference Score of 5.9! I was surprised by that just given the size of the speaker and knowing the offset drivers plus the diffraction.

I find this quite puzzling (too) and it makes it hard to assess whether they might be an actual upgrade for me or not.

Thoughts?

 

[audioenthousiast1988]

Please take this from me. Go and listen and decide what your ears like. Erin said the new dali rubikores were bright. He tested them on axis and without grills, of course it will be bright. Also the wharfedales were tested without grills. They are designed with grills on. Dont believe all these internet people is what im saying.

 

[Rednaxela]

Please take this from me. Go and listen and decide what your ears like.

Thanks I might indeed! In any event they would be measured in-room and EQ-ed too. I guess I'm trying to work out if they have enough of what it takes to make this a success.

Also the wharfedales were tested without grills.

Really? From the review:

IMPORTANT SETUP INFO:

This speaker was measured with the reference point at the tweeter. Speaker was broken in. Grille was on for all measurements except a CEA-2034 measurement where I provided both grille on and grille off (clearly labeled in the title). The speaker measured was the one with the tweeter on the left and the midrange on the right (this is an asymmetric design).

They are designed with grills on.

Erin seems well aware of this, so what makes you think he tested them without grilles? Did he state this somewhere?

Dont believe all these internet people is what im saying.

Agree! For me though, Erin and Amir are two of the very few exceptions. I take their words very seriously.

 

[audioenthousiast1988]

But thats where you go wrong, a speaker is so very dependent on the room its in. No one can measure it in a perfect room. I know erin takes it as seriously as he can, but the fact that people blind buy based on his work is crazy to me. As soon as you go to a store and listen to a speaker you know if its right for you, isnt that all that matters. The fact that its not perfectly in a graph doesnt really matter then does it. The dali oberon 5s that i have arent perfect, but they do make me enjoy music greatly. I once bought a speaker based on a youtube review, i cant tell you how fast it was sold again. Its like buying a cologne online without testing it first, its so personal.

 

[Bernard23]

Agree! For me though, Erin and Amir are two of the very few exceptions. I take their words very seriously.

I'd take their measurements seriously, their opinions no different to anyone elses.

 

[Bernard23]

But thats where you go wrong, a speaker is so very dependent on the room its in. No one can measure it in a perfect room. I know erin takes it as seriously as he can, but the fact that people blind buy based on his work is crazy to me. As soon as you go to a store and listen to a speaker you know if its right for you, isnt that all that matters. The fact that its not perfectly in a graph doesnt really matter then does it. The dali oberon 5s that i have arent perfect, but they do make me enjoy music greatly. I once bought a speaker based on a youtube review, i cant tell you how fast it was sold again. Its like buying a cologne online without testing it first, its so personal.

That's true, but it's a very random (and expensive) way of selecting gear. The ideas behind objective measurement data is it allows you to "calibrate" your ears to a reference, and filter out the options that won't suit. On the other hand of course, the bit perfect users want the truth, even if it's painful to hear.

 

[kharan]

But thats where you go wrong, a speaker is so very dependent on the room its in. No one can measure it in a perfect room. I know erin takes it as seriously as he can, but the fact that people blind buy based on his work is crazy to me.

Don't change the subject. Erin was fully away that the Super Denton should be listened grilles on.

Just like he was aware that the Rubikore should be listened facing straight forward into the room, which he also did.

As he points out in the written review

• Setup Recommendations: Best positioned off-axis to improve sound balance.
• Bi-ampable Feature: Potential for using separate amplifiers for better sound tuning which may be useful to lower treble.
• Room Considerations: Sidewall absorption recommended to mitigate off-axis high-frequency peaks.

He even took an 30 degree off axis spinorama to see the result. He finds it bright even off axis.

It's perfectly okay to disagree with his subjective thoughts, but let's not imply he didn't evaluate them with due diligence.

Please take this from me. Go and listen and decide what your ears like. Erin said the new dali rubikores were bright. He tested them on axis and without grills, of course it will be bright. Also the wharfedales were tested without grills. They are designed with grills on. Dont believe all these internet people is what im saying.

 

[Rednaxela]

I'd take their measurements seriously, their opinions no different to anyone elses.

There are many audio talking heads whose opinion I take much less seriously than Erin's and Amir's. So I don't fully agree with the second half of your statement.

But thats where you go wrong, a speaker is so very dependent on the room its in. No one can measure it in a perfect room. I know erin takes it as seriously as he can, but the fact that people blind buy based on his work is crazy to me. As soon as you go to a store and listen to a speaker you know if its right for you, isnt that all that matters. The fact that its not perfectly in a graph doesnt really matter then does it. The dali oberon 5s that i have arent perfect, but they do make me enjoy music greatly. I once bought a speaker based on a youtube review, i cant tell you how fast it was sold again. Its like buying a cologne online without testing it first, its so personal.

The highlighted parts read like a contradiction.

I think I get your point though. You seem to be saying: Erin's neutrality assessment was his subjective finding in his room, and your subjective finding in your room might be different. In that case I'd say: perhaps, but I wouldn't therefore put aside the abundance of top quality measurement data he provides along with it. Which is something you seem to be doing in response?