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Wharfedale Linton 85th Anniversary speaker review & measurements by Erin's Audio Corner

fragzone

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The difference is the SPL capacity, hence distortion at base frequencies. Try to compare your speaker’s relevant chart.

View attachment 217397
Well now I feel like an ignorant fool. Thanks to all who have enlightened me. So basically distortion rises and thus produces audible deficiencies in sound, and also coupled by an 'unbalanced' sound because the spl of the bass does not increase linearly (or as linearly in comparison to speakers with bigger drivers) with the rest of the frequency response as the volume gets higher?
 

sarumbear

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Well now I feel like an ignorant fool. Thanks to all who have enlightened me.
You are welcome. Never too late to learn :)

So basically distortion rises and thus produces audible deficiencies in sound, and also coupled by an 'unbalanced' sound because the spl of the bass does not increase linearly (or as linearly in comparison to speakers with bigger drivers) with the rest of the frequency response as the volume gets higher?
Distortion rises and after a while you only hear distortion. As high levels of distortion is made of multiple harmonics the SPL increases but it is no longer related to the music that is playing.

There is a very simple formula that defines the maximum SPL from any size driver. You must know the Xmax of the driver, which is the ability of its cone to move in and out (to generate the sound wavs that we hear as sound). If you know the driver in question you can look it's Xmax value up.
 

tomtoo

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Well now I feel like an ignorant fool. Thanks to all who have enlightened me. So basically distortion rises and thus produces audible deficiencies in sound, and also coupled by an 'unbalanced' sound because the spl of the bass does not increase linearly (or as linearly in comparison to speakers with bigger drivers) with the rest of the frequency response as the volume gets higher?

You the opposite of a fool. You learn fools dont learn. They think they know wihout learning.
 

sarumbear

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You the opposite of a fool. You learn fools dont learn. They think they know wihout learning.
Couldn’t have said it better :)
 

cavedriver

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In passive loudspeakers where this is not done, you have both variations in driveunit freq response AND component tolerances in the crossover. A dsp crossover is always 100% the same, while a bad passive crossover can be 90-100 % the same between different units.
Snell used to measure all their components and drivers and match each speaker to a reference to within +/- 0.5 dB. They even adjusted the windings on their inductors, and if you ordered replacement parts from them (and now Atomic hifi), you got replacement matched component parts as well. Not sure which other speaker manufacturers do this but the more I see measurements on these sites and listen to different speakers, the more I'm thinking this should be mandatory for any reasonably expensive passive speaker
 

Rick Sykora

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When you consider somebody who buys a kit that modifies the manufacturer’s design, does not measure to validate the result and refuses to consider equalization, how likely is it they have a left speaker that closely matches the right one? Ime, it is pretty unlikely they match well enough to create a great stereo image. :(
 

archerious

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These and the KEF R3 are going to both sound very good although with a different sound signature.
But fully explaining why is complex. Plus not all of the traits are fully captured in the data. Subjectivity, and personally preferences will also play a strong roll between these 2 speakers.
At this price point why not try both at the same time in your home? It is worth the costs of return shipping and if you buy from certain places that may only be $10 per speaker.
Best way to learn.

For example I wasn't smitten with the R3. Though I try lots of speakers and I could also see why another person may absolutely love them. You have to listen or just pick one and be cool with what you have.



If the size works. Why can't you buy a 3rd Linton for the center.

If you don't mind me asking, which do you prefer around the same price as Lintons, R3, M105/M106, and Focal 906?

They'll be used with an SVS SB2000 sub in a small/medium room.
 

ROOSKIE

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If you don't mind me asking, which do you prefer around the same price as Lintons, R3, M105/M106, and Focal 906?

They'll be used with an SVS SB2000 sub in a small/medium room.
Since you have a nice sub you just need quality responce from 70 or 80hrz on up so all of those can handle that.
In a smaller room even the small M105 can do an 70-80hrz high pass.
(If the monitors will be run full range let me know. I am assuming for now you will high pass them.)
I have not heard the M106 or the Aria. The Revel "sound" has really worked for me. I currently use both the M16 and M126be. I preferred both to the R3 and I deff like the M126be over the M16. I don't know how much is gained by going M126be vs the M106. I got such a good price on the M126be's I jumped. No regrets at all, they are extremely good and I don't say that often. I plan to sell the M16 but even that is hard as I love them. Just don't need them anymore though.
I have a pair of Aria K2 906's unopened that I ended up with by mistake and never returned. If I do open them I can compare them to the Revels but until then I have no opinion.
 

archerious

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Since you have a nice sub you just need quality responce from 70 or 80hrz on up so all of those can handle that.
In a smaller room even the small M105 can do an 70-80hrz high pass.
(If the monitors will be run full range let me know. I am assuming for now you will high pass them.)
I have not heard the M106 or the Aria. The Revel "sound" has really worked for me. I currently use both the M16 and M126be. I preferred both to the R3 and I deff like the M126be over the M16. I don't know how much is gained by going M126be vs the M106. I got such a good price on the M126be's I jumped. No regrets at all, they are extremely good and I don't say that often. I plan to sell the M16 but even that is hard as I love them. Just don't need them anymore though.
I have a pair of Aria K2 906's unopened that I ended up with by mistake and never returned. If I do open them I can compare them to the Revels but until then I have no opinion.
Thank you, I'll look into the M126be and M105. My main goal is getting better detail, I heard the Kef R5 before and frankly found them a little....hmm....bright? Something was off.
EDIT: The M126be are more than I'd want to spend :D. Prefer to keep it under $3000 for the pair.
 

vlad335

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They are after Danny is done!:eek:

He is changing the spectral balance without knowing what the frequency response is below 200 Hz. :facepalm: He added a bunch of expensive damping despite the lack of evidence that it was needed. In another video, Danny ridiculed Amir for doing nearfield measurements. Seems to me, he is stuck in the past and really should not be modifying any existing speaker designs until he learns how to make more representative measurements!
So it is very possible to spend a boatload of money on the upgrade and end up with a horrible speaker? A modification to a speaker that measures pretty well to begin with. Man...
 

oceansize

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Lizards, pet lizards had those as a teen , I had to tear apart a pair of speakers as one of my pet lizards had gone into the speaker. How did I know , I’ve literally turned my room upside down inside out :) and there was only one place left to look for it... and there it was a bit foggy as part of the stuffing sticked to it .
This lizard - was it a monitor?
 

cavedriver

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Thank you, I'll look into the M126be and M105. My main goal is getting better detail, I heard the Kef R5 before and frankly found them a little....hmm....bright? Something was off.
EDIT: The M126be are more than I'd want to spend :D. Prefer to keep it under $3000 for the pair.
If your goal is better detail I would not buy the Lintons. So far (now that I've got some on hand) I agree with comments others have made that they are not super detailed. If I have a complaint about them at the moment this would be my first one. Caveat, though, that I have not heard any of those other speakers (so they might all not meet your goals), just that I've heard a number of more expensive speakers with better detail. The LS/50 Meta's that I was recently demoing had at least slightly better, if not significantly better detail in the highs, but had a broad frequency output dip that made their mid-bass too anemic, especially after getting some help A/B'ing them against the Wharfedale EVO 4.2s.

Also, I would have said to stay away from wide baffle speakers in general if you want detail but I no longer believe this after hearing BenB's custom line array speakers that he's posted about on this forum. They are effectively an infinite baffle wall mounted speaker and they presented excellent levels of detail.
 
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JustJones

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I bought a pair of these I hope my in room REW measurements aren't to crazy. I might get around to it in a few days. I'm using a Cambridge Evo 150 with them and I have a Kef Cube 10 I might try as well.
 

archerious

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If your goal is better detail I would not buy the Lintons. So far (now that I've got some on hand) I agree with comments others have made that they are not super detailed. If I have a complaint about them at the moment this would be my first one. Caveat, though, that I have not heard any of those other speakers (so they might all not meet your goals), just that I've heard a number of more expensive speakers with better detail. The LS/50 Meta's that I was recently demoing had at least slightly better, if not significantly better detail in the highs, but had a broad frequency output dip that made their mid-bass too anemic, especially after getting some help A/B'ing them against the Wharfedale EVO 4.2s.

Also, I would have said to stay away from wide baffle speakers in general if you want detail but I no longer believe this after hearing BenB's custom line array speakers that he's posted about on this forum. They are effectively an infinite baffle wall mounted speaker and they presented excellent levels of detail.
I went for Revel M105 thanks to you and @ROOSKIE .
 
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regan

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Wharfedale EVO 4.2
What's your take on these and how would you say they compare to the Lintons? Or to the ls50s? Really hard to find evo owners around here, they're quite unpopular probably because of their warm signature or I don't know.

Been thinking about buying them but some reviewers say these evo 4.2 sound good but are EXTREMELY (!!!) sensitive at room placement. This scared me :(
 

cavedriver

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I went for Focal M105 thanks to you and @ROOSKIE .
you mean the Revel M105 I assume
What's your take on these and how would you say they compare to the Lintons? Or to the ls50s? Really hard to find evo owners around here, they're quite unpopular probably because of their warm signature or I don't know.

Been thinking about buying them but some reviewers say these evo 4.2 sound good but are EXTREMELY (!!!) sensitive at room placement. This scared me :(
I listened to the LS/50 Meta's side by side with the EVO 4.2's, although I had to return both just before the Linton's arrived. The LS/50's were growing on me until I took them and the EVO's to a friends to measure and listen to them. Switching back and forth between them and measuring them it became apparent that the LS/50's had a broad dip in the 1k to 3k range. It's not so obvious when you look at Amir's measurements but it is there, and when you can A/B them against a speaker that is a little stronger in this area you start to notice that the LS/50 sounds a little anemic in that range. Their high frequency performance is excellent though, clear as a bell, very high power handling, but at those volumes the bass is quite limited. I also needed more bass range because I wanted to use them without a sub in my library. The excellent horizontal and vertical dispersion you see in the review is apparent with the speaker- they were relatively insensitive to toe-in angle and listener height. I can't say if they imaged excellently.

I really wanted to like the Wharfedale EVO 4.2's. They seemed fast, easy, and not as vertically sensitive as you might expect from a 3-way. The bass output was prodigious and felt like it extended lower than Wharfedale claims, at least to usable levels if not equal volume. Unfortunately I felt like they sounded compressed or messy in the mid-highs when cranked up and it was really bothering me. The measurements showed a peak around 6k that might have explained it but I didn't test them with the peak lowered with DSP to see if anything else was going on. Since I wanted to be able to play them from a variety of sources I didn't want to be reliant on a DSP stage to be happy so back they went. I will say they are very nicely built for the price point. The curves are fairly nice on the eyes and they are solid feeling, heavy, have very nice binding posts, and the wood veneer looks real even if it isn't (I've seen conflicting statements, not sure). My friend definitely thought the EVO's sounded better than the LS/50's, and with DSP or maybe a crossover tweak I would probably agree with him. I really want to hear one of the KEF reference Meta towers to see if they fix that 1-3k dip when they add a bass driver. I suspect I would really like them.

I'm still listening to the Lintons but my immediate reaction is very positive. These speakers are FUN. I quickly got that feeling that you want to feed them all your favorite music that you get when you hear a good speaker. I admit I'm a little uncertain what aspect of the speaker is causing this but I will say they seem fast, dynamic, have good bass character, image well, but also lack some detail that I've been able to hear in better speakers recently. They are sufficiently full range for me to enjoy most music without a sub. I was going to say that they play cleanly at high volumes but then I looked back at Erin's data and it looks like I should be hearing some compression in the highs and distortion in the bass, so what do I know. Maybe that's the source of the "lack of detail" observation, although one of the reviews suggested they could have used a better tweeter (am I quoting Danny, oops?). Maybe the compression and treble roll off are conspiring to protect my hearing at high volumes, causing me not to feel quickly fatigued while playing around with them at high volumes. I will be continuing to critically listen to them for a while but they are looking likely for my library. Would I consider investing in Danny's crossover at this time? No frigging way. Are they better than my Snell E/III's? Not quite. The Snells still have better bass detail despite they slight bass lift and port boominess, and are a little cleaner in the highs with more convincing voicing (tonal accuracy?? looking for a term), however the Lintons are a little brighter in a good way that has me thinking it might be time to finally put my spare tweeters in my Snells as they sound a little soft to me now. Will I eventually sell the Lintons to get something better (and more expensive)? Probably yes. But for now I think I'm just going to enjoy them.
 
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archerious

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you mean the Revel M105 I assume

I listened to the LS/50 Meta's side by side with the EVO 4.2's, although I had to return both just before the Linton's arrived. The LS/50's were growing on me until I took them and the EVO's to a friends to measure and listen to them. Switching back and forth between them and measuring them it became apparent that the LS/50's had a broad dip in the 1k to 3k range. It's not so obvious when you look at Amir's measurements but it is there, and when you can A/B them against a speaker that is a little stronger in this area you start to notice that the LS/50 sounds a little anemic in that range. Their high frequency performance is excellent though, clear as a bell, very high power handling, but at those volumes the bass is quite limited. I also needed more bass range because I wanted to use them without a sub in my library. The excellent horizontal and vertical dispersion you see in the review is apparent with the speaker- they were relatively insensitive to toe-in angle and listener height. I can't say if they imaged excellently.

I really wanted to like the Wharfedale EVO 4.2's. They seemed fast, easy, and not as vertically sensitive as you might expect from a 3-way. The bass output was prodigious and felt like it extended lower than Wharfedale claims, at least to usable levels if not equal volume. Unfortunately I felt like they sounded compressed or messy in the mid-highs when cranked up and it was really bothering me. The measurements showed a peak around 6k that might have explained it but I didn't test them with the peak lowered with DSP to see if anything else was going on. Since I wanted to be able to play them from a variety of sources I didn't want to be reliant on a DSP stage to be happy so back they went. I will say they are very nicely built for the price point. The curves are fairly nice on the eyes and they are solid feeling, heavy, have very nice binding posts, and the wood veneer looks real even if it isn't (I've seen conflicting statements, not sure). My friend definitely thought the EVO's sounded better than the LS/50's, and with DSP or maybe a crossover tweak I would probably agree with him. I really want to hear one of the KEF reference Meta towers to see if they fix that 1-3k dip when they add a bass driver. I suspect I would really like them.

I'm still listening to the Lintons but my immediate reaction is very positive. These speakers are FUN. I quickly got that feeling that you want to feed them all your favorite music that you get when you hear a good speaker. I admit I'm a little uncertain what aspect of the speaker is causing this but I will say they seem fast, dynamic, have good bass character, image well, but also lack some detail that I've been able to hear in better speakers recently. They are sufficiently full range for me to enjoy most music without a sub. I was going to say that they play cleanly at high volumes but then I looked back at Erin's data and it looks like I should be hearing some compression in the highs and distortion in the bass, so what do I know. Maybe that's the source of the "lack of detail" observation, although one of the reviews suggested they could have used a better tweeter (am I quoting Danny, oops?). Maybe the compression and treble roll off are conspiring to protect my hearing at high volumes, causing me not to feel quickly fatigued while playing around with them at high volumes. I will be continuing to critically listen to them for a while but they are looking likely for my library. Would I consider investing in Danny's crossover at this time? No frigging way. Are they better than my Snell E/III's? Not quite. The Snells still have better bass detail despite they slight bass lift and port boominess, and are a little cleaner in the highs with more convincing voicing (tonal accuracy?? looking for a term), however the Lintons are a little brighter in a good way that has me thinking it might be time to finally put my spare tweeters in my Snells as they sound a little soft to me now. Will I eventually sell the Lintons to get something better (and more expensive)? Probably yes. But for now I think I'm just going to enjoy them.
Yes, my bad!
 
OP
thewas

thewas

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The LS/50's were growing on me until I took them and the EVO's to a friends to measure and listen to them. Switching back and forth between them and measuring them it became apparent that the LS/50's had a broad dip in the 1k to 3k range. It's not so obvious when you look at Amir's measurements but it is there, and when you can A/B them against a speaker that is a little stronger in this area you start to notice that the LS/50 sounds a little anemic in that range.
The Lintons have a wide dip lower (between 600 and 2000 Hz) there which was also mentioned by Erin and makes them sound a bit warm also in my past listening experiences:

1657604582571.png

The LS50 Meta have just a smaller dip between 2-4 kHz and sound less laidback:

index.php
 

DanielT

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The Lintons have a wide dip lower (between 600 and 2000 Hz) there which was also mentioned by Erin and makes them sound a bit warm also in my past listening experiences:

View attachment 217891
The LS50 Meta have just a smaller dip between 2-4 kHz and sound less laidback:

index.php
..wide dip lower (between 600 and 2000 Hz)...
That does not look EQ friendly, or what do you say? It probably matter of just/only plug and play with them. ..sound a bit warm ... and why not? :) ... Can be a really nice sound in many people's ears. Fits with the aesthetics of the speakers as well. Wharfedale got a hit with these Linton, . Well thought out design.:D

1657604582571 (1).png
 
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