Wharfedale Diamond 12 Owner's Thread

[Palladium]

Evo series, should be better???

I liked the 12.2 a lot more.

Hell, I even take the 220 over the Evo 4.2.

Again, YMMV due to placement and room modes.

 

[antcollinet]

No reasonable loudspeaker has a 20 dB spike so low,

Nor does any microphone. But room modes caused by reflections can, and often do, result in such responses. Measurements taken from a couple of threads here:

 

[thewas]

Nor does any microphone. But room modes caused by reflections can, and often do, result in such responses. Measurements taken from a couple of threads here:

View attachment 415648View attachment 415649

I agree that typical measurements mics don't have such large and relatively low frequency peaks but even on such measurements as it can be seen usually not a single discrete 20 dB(!) peak appears in that region, I have done in the last years more than 1000 loudspeaker measurements and never seen something similar.

I have the Diamond 12.2 speakers. When i run room correction on my Wiim amp it shows a big spike up to 20db at 8khz. Different phones give the same results. Weird thing is i don't hear it, sounds great to me. If I allow the room correction to 'correct' that high it sounds terrible, extremely muffled.

Could you post some screenshots of those?

 

[antcollinet]

I have done in the last years more than 1000 loudspeaker measurements and never seen something similar.

I agree that we'd need to get into the specifics of test method, measurement location, measurement kit, room set up and equipment etc to start to get a handle on what is going on.

 

[IndieSynth]

I agree that we'd need to get into the specifics of test method, measurement location, measurement kit, room set up and equipment etc to start to get a handle on what is going on.

Using my Motorola Edge phone mic, latest Wiim software update, measured from sofa about 10 foot in front of speakers. Speakers are at either end of a tv cabinet. Right speaker has lots of clear air around, left speaker has a wall to one side about 2 feet away.

The same spike shows up using a different phone mic (Pixel 8).

 

[antcollinet]

Using my Motorola Edge phone mic, latest Wiim software update, measured from sofa about 10 foot in front of speakers. Speakers are at either end of a tv cabinet. Right speaker has lots of clear air around, left speaker has a wall to one side about 2 feet away.

The same spike shows up using a different phone mic (Pixel 8).

That spike at nearly 8kHz is very unlikely to be a room mode. Wavelength is only about 4cm. At least if it was, it would fade in and out for every 1 or 2cm moment of the microphone.

The only other thing I can think of is resonance. Possibly something in the speaker or room is ringing at 8kHz.

Or android - or the app has an error in making the measurement. Do you have another system or smart speaker you can measure.

What happens if you do a near field measurement - within a cm or two of the tweeter.

 

[Serrano]

How do 12.1s or 12.2s sound when placed on their side rather than bottom, and close (say 2in.) to a wall? Boomy bass and muddy mids? I wonder if my ageing ears will notice much difference!
I'd be glad to hear of anyone's experiences and experiments

 

[crappypanther]

How do 12.1s or 12.2s sound when placed on their side rather than bottom, and close (say 2in.) to a wall? Boomy bass and muddy mids? I wonder if my ageing ears will notice much difference!
I'd be glad to hear of anyone's experiences and experiments

close to wall placement - almost guaranteed boost in the 150-300Hz range for any speakers. but I've attenuated that range with room correction

 

[IndieSynth]

That spike at nearly 8kHz is very unlikely to be a room mode. Wavelength is only about 4cm. At least if it was, it would fade in and out for every 1 or 2cm moment of the microphone.

The only other thing I can think of is resonance. Possibly something in the speaker or room is ringing at 8kHz.

Or android - or the app has an error in making the measurement. Do you have another system or smart speaker you can measure.

What happens if you do a near field measurement - within a cm or two of the tweeter.

Just got around to doing this. Near field also shows a big spike in the same region, up to almost 20db.

Using a different speaker from the original listening position also shows the same spike as the original screenshot.

Trying a different phone shows the same shape spike just shifted to around 10khz.

Is the Wiim room correction software just useless? Has anyone got any decent results with it?

 

[antcollinet]

Using a different speaker from the original listening position also shows the same spike as the original screenshot.

Could still be something in the room resonating. Can you test in a different room. (EG long speaker wire to allow speaker to be placed elsewhere)

Oh - and can you hear this. A 20dB spike at 8kHz should be clearly audible.

 

[IndieSynth]

Could still be something in the room resonating. Can you test in a different room. (EG long speaker wire to allow speaker to be placed elsewhere)

Oh - and can you hear this. A 20dB spike at 8kHz should be clearly audible.

Yep, very similar results in a different room. I think it must be a software or mic issue which is occuring on both phones I've tried. I can't image it's real, like you say I would notice it.

 

[refractioncat]

I'm having a similar measurement artefact with iphone 11 showing high levels around 10-20kHz, even right next to the tweeter. Interesting that different phones and different software are showing similar spurious results.

The speakers themselves (12.1) sound great, the bass reaches gracefully down to the low 40s thanks to positioning and EQ. Both the speakers and listeners are very close to the front and back walls due to space constraints in a multi-use room, which brings boundary cancellations into frequencies that are easier to treat. Room correction (made by just looking at measurements and fiddling with the PEQ) consists of a ~10dB cut from 55-110, ~5dB cut from 300 upwards, and specific cuts for consistent peaks. First reflections on front, back and sides are treated, ceiling has nothing, and floor has both carpets and a coffee table.

 

[Mike_Trueman]

I just removed my new AE500 1200€ speakers from my desk and put back the Diamonds 12.1 speakers on it.
These cheaper Diamonds 12.1 speakers sound so much better and lively, voices sound so good and easy.

I tried the AE500's for 2 weeks now but the music does not touch me like the Diamonds. (maybe my ears need the extra treble)

 

[Bumhunter]

One moment, please...

 

[Willem]

MInd you, that reviewer claims sonic differences between network cables. Amir did not notice any major problems with the Diamonds.

 

[refractioncat]

12.1 is the one reviewed by Amir, while that one talks about the 12.2 having high distortion measurements.

 

[Casukarut]

I am currently torn between the Diamond 12.1 and 12.2 for a small room. Has anybody listened to both? How much of a difference is there? There are no Reviews on Youtube or the internet in general that specifically compare the two.

 

[refractioncat]

The designer likes 12.1 the most

Someone reverse-engineered a frequency response for the 12.2 from Crutchfield SpeakerCompare; if you EQ the bass up the 12.2 reaches around 20 Hz lower (down to ~30 Hz instead of ~50 Hz for the 12.1). Otherwise the implied measurements are pretty similar. Of course this curve doesn't really show resonances, distortion etc.

 

[crappypanther]

The designer likes 12.1 the most

Someone reverse-engineered a frequency response for the 12.2 from Crutchfield SpeakerCompare; if you EQ the bass up the 12.2 reaches around 20 Hz lower (down to ~30 Hz instead of ~50 Hz for the 12.1). Otherwise the implied measurements are pretty similar. Of course this curve doesn't really show resonances, distortion etc.

it's me, yes) I confirm, in 12.2 there is quite a good pleasant bass (and I didn't even want to add it)

 

[jackdanyal]

Has anyone been able to compare Diamon 12.2 against Dentons 85 Anniversary Ed.? Currently, I have Diamonds 12.2 for my desktop setup, but I would like to know if the upgrade to the Dentons 85 will be a big jump. I can purchase them for 500 euros brand new instead of 800 euros. But not sure if it's worth it. Unfortunately, order and return is not an option.