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Wharfedale Diamond 12.1 Review (Speaker)

Matias

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Erin's measurement has a peak in 12 kHz that Amir's does not have. Why is that?
 

Rick Sykora

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Erin's measurement has a peak in 12 kHz that Amir's does not have. Why is that?
Did you ask him?

Pretty sure Amir does not have speaker or the inclination to chase this one down. Not saying am not curious too, but suggest Erin is in a better position to do.
 
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amirm

amirm

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Erin's measurement has a peak in 12 kHz that Amir's does not have. Why is that?
I have noticed that in a number of his reviews. Here is for example the A120:

index.php


Now his:
index.php


It is the same peak even though I picked the A120 at random here. It may be a deviation in his measurement microphone. As Rick said, ask him to investigate.
 

bennycks

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Am using Q acoustic 3010 (non i version) and thinking of upgrading. Is the 12.1 having more bass and clarity?
 

TheBatsEar

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Am using Q acoustic 3010 (non i version) and thinking of upgrading. Is the 12.1 having more bass and clarity?
Hard to answer, since there aren't meaningful measurements of the 3010 around. I guess, based on volume alone, that the Diamond 12.1 would be an update at least in bass.
But i would save some more money instead and go at an update that is worth it for sure:
  • subwoofer SVS SB-1000 ($500)
  • MiniDSP 2x4HD or Flex ($200 to $600)
  • measurement microphone UMIK-1 ($100)
Dial in your bass, remove that stressfull part from your 3010 and you might gain both, clarity and bass. It makes such a difference.
Then, at a later date, i would update the speakers, maybe.
 

Yorkshire Mouth

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So, in his review here, Amir says:

"The M16 has a boosted upper bass and this was quite audible, creating a warmer, albeit slightly muddy sound without correction for my room mode which it activates. The M16 retails for double the price but you can get it for less discounted. Still, I didn't feel that it provided much of any advantage over Wharfedale 12.1 in this quick comparison.

In his review of the M16 he says:

Sitting next to its much bigger brother, the Revel Salon 2, it seems that the M16 won't have a chance. Boy, is that the wrong conclusion. Vocal fidelity in both male and female tracks was excellent. Such balance and what I focused on when I took the blind test at Harman. And then these delightful highs would come with such clarity and freedom of distortion/coloration that would melt me in my chair...I sat there going through my reference tracks, one by one, and almost all sounded superb.

In the UK the M16s retail at between £750 and £900.

The Wharfdale Diamond 12.1s can be had for just £250.

As I'm looking for a new pair of speakers, I'm drawing a very clear conclusion from the above, which I don't feel it necessary to spell out.

Can someone explain why that conclusion is inaccurate?
 
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Laserjock

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So, in his review here, Amir says:



In his review of the M16 he says:



In the UK the M16s retail at between £750 and £900.

The Wharfdale Diamond 12.1s can be had for just £250.

As I'm looking for a new pair of speakers, I'm drawing a very clear conclusion from the above, which I don't feel it necessary to spell out.

Can someone explain why that conclusion is inaccurate?
Wouldn’t the 12.2 be a better comparison? Is there any data on that version?

I have the 12.1 and M16
 

Yorkshire Mouth

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Wouldn’t the 12.2 be a better comparison? Is there any data on that version?

I have the 12.1 and M16

Quite possibly. The reason I compared the two is that I’ve been looking at the M16 for ages, then saw it mentioned as a reasonable comparison by Amir in this review.

If you like, swap the 12.2 in for the 12.1 and change the Wharfdale price to £300, then ask the same question.

By the way, how di you feel comparing the M16 to to the 12.1? Is there any reason to believe the 12.2 will be anything other than ‘like the 12.1, only a bit better’?

But ultimately, if Amir’s lauding of the M16 is accurate (I have no reason to believe or suspect otherwise), and his comment that it “doesn’t have much of an advantage” over the 12.1 is correct, then at £250 the 12.1 must be bargain of the century.
 

warpdrive

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I was basically ready to buy the 12.1, but after watching Erin's review, I'm not so sure anymore. He said the sound was "soft" and "laid back"....lacking some attack. The estimated room response shows a dip right in the mids, which explains that. Amir mostly fixed the dip using EQ and then he was very happy with the sound, but without EQ, I think the 12.1 may sound a little bit too soft in some people's room especially if you are not listening on-axis.
 

Yorkshire Mouth

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There is a similar dip in the Revels - a similar frequency, but about half the size. But there’s a bigger error at c.100hz where the Revels overshoot by 5dB or so.
 

Azatto

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I was basically ready to buy the 12.1, but after watching Erin's review, I'm not so sure anymore. He said the sound was "soft" and "laid back"....lacking some attack. The estimated room response shows a dip right in the mids, which explains that. Amir mostly fixed the dip using EQ and then he was very happy with the sound, but without EQ, I think the 12.1 may sound a little bit too soft in some people's room especially if you are not listening on-axis.
I have 12.2 and think the same about them (soft and "laid back") . Not my kind of sound, as I like sharp and bright sound more.
Think it comes from the crossower design and tuning. If somebody interested I can tear them down and take the schematic. Maybe we can tune them another way.
 

dominikz

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While the Wharfedale Diamond 12.1 appears to be an amazing loudspeaker (especially for the price), Revel M16 seems to have more even/better directivity - e.g. compare these:
Horizontal%20Reflections.jpg

Horizontal%20Reflections.jpg

SPL%20Horizontal.jpg

SPL%20Horizontal.jpg

Source of images: Wharfedale 12.1, Revel M16.
 

warpdrive

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thanks for the confirmation.

I have 12.2 and think the same about them (soft and "laid back") . Not my kind of sound, as I like sharp and bright sound more.
Think it comes from the crossower design and tuning. If somebody interested I can tear them down and take the schematic. Maybe we can tune them another way.

Erin's youtube video has a part where he adds in the same dip using EQ while he is speaking and his voice got a lot duller sounding. It's exactly what I don't want. I also don't mind a slight bit of elevated treble over a recessed treble if I had to choose between the two.

I've been looking for a very compact speaker (5" woofer max) and I thought these Wharfedales are the one, but I'm back to the search process. On the cheaper end, I am looking at the Polk ES15, and on the top end of my price, the Dynaudio Emit 10 (not M10)

The Revel M16 is too high priced in Canada and a bit too big for where I want to use them
 

Doctors11

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thanks for the confirmation.



Erin's youtube video has a part where he adds in the same dip using EQ while he is speaking and his voice got a lot duller sounding. It's exactly what I don't want. I also don't mind a slight bit of elevated treble over a recessed treble if I had to choose between the two.

I've been looking for a very compact speaker (5" woofer max) and I thought these Wharfedales are the one, but I'm back to the search process. On the cheaper end, I am looking at the Polk ES15, and on the top end of my price, the Dynaudio Emit 10 (not M10)

The Revel M16 is too high priced in Canada and a bit too big for where I want to use them
How about the Sonus Faber Lumina 1?

 

Azatto

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So, here is the crossower and schematic for 12.2 model. Driver impedances is 4 ohm both.
 

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  • Wharfedale Diamond 12.2 schematic.jpg
    Wharfedale Diamond 12.2 schematic.jpg
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  • Wharfedale Diamond 12.2 crossower.jpg
    Wharfedale Diamond 12.2 crossower.jpg
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warpdrive

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How about the Sonus Faber Lumina 1?

they weren't on my radar, are those any good? Sizewise they fit the bill but are almost 3X the price in Canada ($1199 CAD vs $450CAD for the 12.1). There are no dealers near me so I would have to buy them blind possibly without a return policy
 

Mal

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I have a pair of Diamond 9.1 on stands in one room and a pair of the really tiny 9.0 on bookshelf in another. They are really nice little speakers, great for small spaces. I would have been surprised if the review of the latest version wasn't as good as it is, because Wharfedale have been getting small speakers right for a long, long, time. The "BBC dip" (also seen described at stereophile as "LS3/5a British upper-bass bump trick") is a longstanding characteristic of the small Diamonds, see https://www.stereophile.com/standloudspeakers/1105wharfedale/index.html
That's a very positive review of of Wharfedale Diamond 9.1. How does 9.0 compare in your set up?
 

julian_hughes

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That's a very positive review of of Wharfedale Diamond 9.1. How does 9.0 compare in your set up?
They are on a bookshelf, about 4 feet apart and wedged into the corners. And they sound absolutely fine like that! These are not for a large or even a medium room but are ideal over a desk or if you have limited space. Obviously you don't get deep bass but you do get a very nice natural sound and great clarity. They are ideal for this particular situation and I feel no temptation to change them.
 

Mal

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Critical review of Wharfedale 12.2:

"We hear sharpness in an important area: the voice area. This causes restlessness. Even on very clean amplifiers, well above the class of this Wharfedale. The competition is killing in this field. And that makes it so that a product just has to be right. And although the speaker looks neat, it does not play at the level of the competition. This Diamond is too bright."


I would make the same criticism of my Wharfedale 9.0s, with back-to-back listening to TV sources, compared to my KEF LSXs. Any passive speakers the same size as KEF LSX, at same (or lower!) price that match them in the voice area?
 
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