WH-1000XM5 line level audio playback

[egwrooo]

Hi, I hope this is the correct spot for this thread. I'm currently working on a device for audio playback I'm intending to use with my Sony XM5's. I've read online that they have an in-built amplifier, so I'm wondering if it would be okay to do line level playback. Not including an amp in this project would be nice for keeping it a little simpler, since it's already kind of over complicated. I'm very new to audio, so sorry if this is a stupid question.

A few of the DAC's I've looked at are the PCM5100 and UDA1334A, though I'm not set on these in particular. Not sure if this is useful info.

 

[DVDdoug]

From what I found, those headphones may not have line-in (or any wired connection). I think you need a Bluetooth transmitter.

Not only do those headphones have a built-in amplifier, they have a built-in DAC (and Bluetooth receiver, etc.).

...Those chips may be of no use if you don't need an analog output.

Most DACs (and soundcards) only have line-outputs and soundcards can also drive headphones A "normal" line output is designed to drive a 10K to 100K line input and is not designed to drive headphones which are usually less than 100 Ohms. But the voltage is about the same so you can use headphone-out to line-in.

If a "DAC" has a power amp (to drive speakers) it's usually classified as an amplifier with a digital inputs and a DAC as a "feature".

 

[egwrooo]

The XM5's definitely have the option to use a wired connection

WH-1000XM5 Specifications

 

[staticV3]

@egwrooo
You can infer from the XM5's load impedance (input impedance), whether it runs fully passive or with an internal butter.

Measuring input impedance and calculating output impedance calculation calculate audio amplifier op-amp how to measure impedance voltage gain total loudspeaker speaker microphone resistance resistor bridging matching test load loudspeaker source resi

Calculate input impedance and measure output impedance calculation total audio amplifierr op-amp how to measure impedance voltage gain total loudspeaker speaker microphone resistance resistor bridging matching test load source resistance - Eberhard Sengpiel sengpielaudio

sengpielaudio.com

Passive will be somewhere between 10 and 100Ω, active buffered at least 500Ω.

Edit:
That may be wrong actually: https://www.rtings.com/headphones/2-0/graph/30840/impedance/sony-wh-1000xm5-wireless/33024

Rtings' impedance graphs shows flat 50Ω, indicating a buffered input, but with unusually low impedance. Curious.

 

[pablolie]

The XM5's definitely have the option to use a wired connection

WH-1000XM5 Specifications

Why pay for a lot of stuff you aren't using? I. e. Bluetooth, LDAC, noise canceling etc. These phones were designed to be primarily used wirelessly. If wired is your preference there are probably superior options galore (IMO etc).

 

[Atanasi]

Why pay for a lot of stuff you aren't using? I. e. Bluetooth, LDAC, noise canceling etc. These phones were designed to be primarily used wirelessly. If wired is your preference there are probably superior options galore (IMO etc).

XM5's wired option is primarily intended for environments where Bluetooth is not allowed (airplanes). It can also be employed to connect Qudelix for PEQ.

 

[pablolie]

XM5's wired option is primarily intended for environments where Bluetooth is not allowed (airplanes). It can also be employed to connect Qudelix for PEQ.

Bluetooth is allowed in almost every commercial flight (unless you're a pilot or attendant). The Sony app also has its own EQ capabilities (I don't EQ). I haven't heard great things about Sony XM family when operated as wired. Most high end wireless cans share that attribute.
Check the review on this website, the Sony WH-1000XM4 measured quite poorly in wired mode. It's not what they were designed for.

 

[TurtlePaul]

XM5's wired option is primarily intended for environments where Bluetooth is not allowed (airplanes).

I travel a lot and have traveled a lot with XM4 headphones. It isn’t that Bluetooth is not allowed on planes (it is allowed). The usefulness of the headphone jack is to be able to listen to the sound playing through the airplane’s entertainment system. The screen in the seat in front of you is much less useful if you don’t have a wired headphone option.

 

[pablolie]

I travel a lot and have traveled a lot with XM4 headphones. It isn’t that Bluetooth is not allowed on planes (it is allowed). The usefulness of the headphone jack is to be able to listen to the sound playing through the airplane’s entertainment system. The screen in the seat in front of you is much less useful if you don’t have a wired headphone option.

Got you. For that purpose I carry 10+ year old wired Shure in-ears when I travel.

 

[egwrooo]

Why pay for a lot of stuff you aren't using? I. e. Bluetooth, LDAC, noise canceling etc. These phones were designed to be primarily used wirelessly. If wired is your preference there are probably superior options galore (IMO etc).

The noise cancellation still runs if you turn them on while using them wired. I already own these, and I'd rather not buy new heaphones for a while.

However, I am reconsidering if I really need wired though. For some reason I thought that bluetooth audio was worse than CD quality, but it looks like Bluetooth 5.2 supports 16 bit 44.1 kHz stereo, so I guess wired is just a waste of time, since there isn't any benefit to higher quality than that (except in music production I think?). It was probably all the stuff about lossless that was confusing me.

At this point the only reason I'd put an audio jack in this thing is to future proof it in case I get wired headphones in the future, which definitely could happen. It looks like I might be able to use the TAD5212 or TLV320DAC3100 for this, without the need for an additional amp, but I need to look at that more since I'm not really sure.

 

[staticV3]

For some reason I thought that bluetooth audio was worse than CD quality, but it looks like Bluetooth 5.2 supports 16 bit 44.1 kHz stereo

The only Bluetooth codec that can match CD quality is aptX Lossless.

The XM5 does not support aptX Lossless.

Does that matter in practice? Likely not.

 

[egwrooo]

According to this LC3, which was introduced with Bluetooth 5.2 supports 16 bit 44.1 kHz playback. Is this a case where real world performance just doesn't match the spec?

Edit: Just looked at it again and realized that it doesn't support a high enough bit rate for that quality.

 

[barreleye]

Check the review on this website, the Sony WH-1000XM4 measured quite poorly in wired mode. It's not what they were designed for.

In powered-off mode. Powered on, wired sounds the same as wireless, except that the EQ configured in the Sony app is NOT active. This is arguably a good thing, because the app EQ is lame, and reviewers and people like oratory1990 tend to measure and EQ the baseline wireless signature. You can take their work and plug it into a parametric EQ in wired mode without worrying about what you did in the app EQ. EQ'd, they're not terrible headphones, but you have to use them powered on in wired mode. I don't know why you wouldn't when the main point of these headphones is noise cancelling. I mean, you can turn any wired headphone into wireless with a Qudelix 5K, for example. (I had these headphones for a while but they died with the Screech of Death a couple months out of warranty, and the XM5 were extremely flawed in new ways, so after trying them for a couple of weeks, it was no more Sony for me, ever. That was like 3 years ago.)

I don't know of any Bluetooth headphone that sounds different in wired mode when powered on compared to wireless. I would avoid them if that were the case.