Weird thing (Topping E30 DAC + Marantz receiver)

[Megaken]

Hi. I'm experiencing a weird phenomenon and it's bothering me.

I have a marantz nr1609 receiver and I play music from my phone and it sounds pretty great when the phone is connected through a........... bluetooth receiver!

Then I have a new topping e30 dac connected to same receiver and USB to the same phone. And it sounds just OK. Nowhere near the soundstage and richness of bluetooth.

How is this possible?

N.b:
- All cables are good, and I tried different cables. And different inputs on the receiver.
- the bluetooth receiver is connected to the marantz via toslink
- it's a 2.1 setup with decent speakers
- I tried 2 different phones, same results
- the topping dac is in dac mode, and shows correct sampling rate
- I tried different sources - from high quality flac files to mediocre quality streaming - same result.
- I'm using USB audio player pro (but same behavior with other apps)
- Same behavior in all surround modes and direct
- I have an older topping dac (different model) that shows the same performance (that's why I bought the e30, thought it would be better).

 

[Drengur]

Have you tried adjusting the volume on the E30, is it the same no matter what? Have you tried different inputs on the Marantz? Have you tried a different RCA-cable?

 

[Megaken]

Have you tried adjusting the volume on the E30, is it the same no matter what? Have you tried different inputs on the Marantz? Have you tried a different RCA-cable?

The E30 in dac mode doesn't have volume control, it's defaulted to max volume basically, and I set max volume on the source (phone).

And yep to all your questions - tried different inputs, and different cables (RCA and USB).

What I realized is the E30 has an AK4493 chip and the marantz has an AK4458. *Should* the E30 even sound that much better?

 

[Drengur]

Edit: read your original post better, noticed you have jumped through all the obvious hoops, sorry for not noticing.

 

[Koeitje]

Does the Marantz receiver digitize the analog inputs?

 

[Megaken]

Does the Marantz receiver digitize the analog inputs?

Sounds like it. Unless I use direct mode. And to me everything sounds worse in direct mode in general, which btw - why is that?

 

[AdamG]

Are you using Analog out to the AVR ? Then you need to plug the analog out from the DAC to the analog input of Tape in or any other open input. Then when listening to tape input on AVR you must go into the AVR Setup Menu, and select Inputs, then Input Select, then change input mode to Analog. This will bypass any digital processing of the input signal from the DAC.

 

[Megaken]

Are you using Analog out to the AVR ?

Well yes - it's a DAC - so digital signal comes in, analog signal comes out. So analog to avr is the only option.

Then you need to plug the analog out from the DAC to the analog input of Tape in or any other open input.

I have the following analog inputs: cable/sat, DVD and CD. Currently I have it connected to DVD input which is set to analog (otherwise it wouldn't work, because there is no digital signal coming in from the DAC).

Then when listening to tape input on AVR you must go into the AVR Setup Menu, and select Inputs, then Input Select, then change input mode to Analog. This will bypass any digital processing of the input signal from the DAC.

Yep. I already have all the digital inputs assigned to other things.

 

[shrimp_dude]

Have you tried using a different source for usb input, like a pc/laptop and not your android phone(s)?

 

[Megaken]

Have you tried using a different source for usb input, like a pc/laptop and not your android phone(s)?

Hmm well no, because that's what I use to play music from. I'll try a computer just to see what happens.

 

[Thomas_A]

Just to check - it is not that some settings are overridden when you connect to analogue (dynamic EQ etc?). It should not unless you use direct mode. If you don't use direct mode, the Marantz will pass it through its own DACs also through analogue input.

 

[Megaken]

Just to check - it is not that some settings are overridden when you connect to analogue (dynamic EQ etc?). It should not unless you use direct mode. If you don't use direct mode, the Marantz will pass it through its own DACs also through analogue input.

Yes I'm realizing that now actually (the fact that even analog signal gets processed unless direct mode is used). But in my tests direct sounds even worse than 'surround' modes. But I'll tinker with that some more.

 

[Thomas_A]

Yes I'm realizing that now actually (the fact that even analog signal gets processed unless direct mode is used). But in my tests direct sounds even worse than 'surround' modes. But I'll tinker with that some more.

Just check settings, like dynamic EQ and more. I have done similar mistakes.

 

[Megaken]

Just check settings, like dynamic EQ and more. I have done similar mistakes.

But are you saying dynamic eq should be on or off, or whatever sounds best? I generally set reference to 'flat' for 2-ch music..

Another thing I noticed (this has nothing to do with the DAC), but on the receiver the difference between dynamic volume OFF and LIGHT is very apparent - LIGHT being richer. Then MEDIUM sounds closer to OFF than to LIGHT.

 

[Thomas_A]

Dynamic EQ is a variable loudness as I understand. I never use it.

 

[Megaken]

It's variable EQ that compensates for low volume with a more dynamic EQ that adds texture to audio at low volume (so when you're listening quietly at night it sounds more detailed). I keep it on but it has little effect on day to day use.

Dynamic volume does mess with signal more though

 

[Megaken]

Oh BTW does anyone know - if I have my system calibrated with audyssey - do I need to recalibrate when I add a chain component (like a DAC)? Or inputs don't matter and only outputs to speakers matter?

 

[Thomas_A]

There should be no difference using a DAC as a source. If you use the DAC and normal mode, all Audyssey settings should be there. If there still is some differences between DAC -> analoge input and other sources I cannot say what the problem is. The only plausible difference is the analogue input which cannot cope with the signal from the DAC, like it is too high and cause clipping.

 

[Megaken]

No clipping - if anything, it's too 'low' (sounds quieter than digital sources)

 

[ah-ra]

You can choose whether you apply Audyssey incl. Dyn. EQ, Offset, Dyn. Vol... etc. for each source/input separately. I guess you're just using different setting for your sources and that's why there is a big difference in sound....