Weight in the sound.

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

i upgrade my bookshelf in my smalish room to a mid size floorstander... i couldn't be more happy. im using a bit of room correction and the '' O '' foam in both bass ports.



But there are few thing that i notice, first the floorstander seems to have unlimited spl or something like that, much higher than my r300, i have the R7.



But more than the bass extension, the weight in the sound is much more fun and correct, that's only because the floorstander have 2 woofers instead of one? or also have more area in 100hz-400hz helps to the weight in the sounds? for example, the drums sounds much better...



At lower volume i feel the same, i can use the floostander at low volume and still get fun out of them, and if i push just a little bit the towers start to move and the walls and my chest know that, if i push a little bit more the towers show me a live concert or something like that xD

These towers can move a lot of air, also i find at similar SPL the woofers in the floostander move less or that is my impression, but the weight and the bass feel much better...

So, whats was the deal? the larger cabinet make the speakers sounds much better or add another driver to the speaker was the magic? or both

I'm a bit confused

 

[AdamG]

Both. Larger enclosure and more drivers make the music have more depth, punch, mass. Your bigger speakers are producing more tactile energy in the room.

 

[Propheticus]

Like someone who's somewhat known once sang: "it's all about that bass, `bout that bass!"
Low frequency energy / air movement.
Next up, add a subwoofer for even more 'weight'.

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

Like someone who's somewhat known once sang: "it's all about that bass, `bout that bass!"
Low frequency energy / air movement.
Next up, add a subwoofer for even more 'weight'.

If i change my house im gonna use a DSP for cut the towers at 80hz and then add 2 subs, for now this is more than enough for me, way more than enough

 

[Kachda]

Show us measurements or it didn’t happen

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

Show us measurements or it didn’t happen

measurements of what do you want?
Im only have this cheap mic for calls... pretty bad measrurements im gonna get with that mic XD

For room correcion i use a video of youtube 20hz-100hz~ and then use my ears for remove the peak at 88hz-3dB xD

 

[Kachda]

measurements of what do you want?
Im only have this cheap mic for calls... pretty bad measrurements im gonna get with that mic XD
View attachment 145108
For room correcion i use a video of youtube 20hz-100hz~ and then use my ears for remove the peak at 88hz-3dB xD

I was just kidding. I can believe that a floorstander can produce more bass than a bookshelf due to multiple woofers and higher efficiency.

 

[Senior NEET Engineer]

This thread will not be productive without measurements

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

I was just kidding. I can believe that a floorstander can produce more bass than a bookshelf due to multiple woofers and higher efficiency.

This is my first floorstander, for my room the people didn't recomend me a floorstander for my room but i got the R7s for a nice price xD nearly the R3 price

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

This thread will not be productive without measurements

Hope someone do the measurements of R7s, the R3 are very nice speakers.
Apparently the F6 is at 33hz by Kef data, i have a lot of electronica and i didn't hear the obvious roll-off in the bass like my previous bookshelf R300s, but its pretty obvious this tower have a better bass.. but yes i wanna see the measurements too


--
This is one of the few objetive reviews of r7
''Frequency response of KEF’s large R7 floorstander ran basically flat from 30Hz up to 20kHz – a very wide range. The lower port peaks at 30Hz (orange trace) and the upper port at 40Hz (red trace); they are staggered in deep bass output for consistent bass delivery. This also reflects back into a peak-free impedance curve. The R7 is a big-bass ''

https://7review.com/kef-r7-review/

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

Nice!
Kef shared his measurements r3 vs R7, they match the spl for see clearly the thd, the THD of R7 is extremely low, like the revel f206
"
Here is a measurement showing R3 vs R7.
R7 is more sensitive, so it is measured here with a lower input voltage to show THD for the same SPL. The distortion level is generally very similar but considerably lower for R7 below 200Hz due to the extra driver and acoustic volume.
"

 

[Senior NEET Engineer]

Hope someone do the measurements of R7s, the R3 are very nice speakers.
Apparently the F6 is at 33hz by Kef data, i have a lot of electronica and i didn't hear the obvious roll-off in the bass like my previous bookshelf R300s, but its pretty obvious this tower have a better bass.. but yes i wanna see the measurements too


--
This is one of the few objetive reviews of r7
''Frequency response of KEF’s large R7 floorstander ran basically flat from 30Hz up to 20kHz – a very wide range. The lower port peaks at 30Hz (orange trace) and the upper port at 40Hz (red trace); they are staggered in deep bass output for consistent bass delivery. This also reflects back into a peak-free impedance curve. The R7 is a big-bass ''

https://7review.com/kef-r7-review/
View attachment 145109

I meant in-room measurements. Difference in bass driver location will change the in-room bass response.

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

I meant in-room measurements. Difference in bass driver location will change the in-room bass response.

the first time i hear the towers vs my bookshelf i feel the bass in the towers was more even, subjectively spoken

 

[Ultrasonic]

This is my first floorstander, for my room the people didn't recomend me a floorstander for my room but i got the R7s for a nice price xD nearly the R3 price

In my experience people who advise against floorstanding speakers are generally not factoring in the use of EQ, which you have sensibly used. With EQ there is no need to compromise bass extension just because a room is smaller.

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

In my experience people who advise against floorstanding speakers are generally not factoring in the use of EQ, which you have sensibly used. With EQ there is no need to compromise bass extension just because a room is smaller.

i think there is so many '' purist '' audiophiles which can't use EQ because they are so purist and they only use vinyl, you know the vinyl doesn't come with EQ, most of them need to change their speakers 2 times per years lol. I fact i buyed my tower to a guy who doesn't know how to use the EQ but vinyls! for me was an oportunity xD

 

[tecnogadget]

Maybe what you are hearing is the R7 pressurizing the room, while the R300 is not.

I could hypothesize that, the fact we are comparing a bookshelf with a floorstander, even placing both speakers in the same spot in the room, the ports will be at different place (height, and back wall since both cabinets have different depth). And this little difference could mean pressurization or the lack of it. But don’t take it for granted, this is just a thought.

Watching that measurement graph, leads me to think the difference in bass extension and spl between R3 and R7 would be really small, at least by ear. The most visible change is a little bit lower distortion below 50Hz. Getting the R7 at a similar price as R3 at least save you from having to spend extra cash for a stand.

Did you ask Kef for this specific measurement? because I don’t recall any of this on their whitepaper. If so, thanks for sharing it us, it’s interesting data for sure.

To get a real sense of what’s happening inside your listening space, I extremely recommend you to get an UMIK-1 measurement microphone (its really cheap, something like $75), and get to know how to use REW (its easy, there is a manual and a 101 pdf guide). I promise you, that’s going to be the absolute best investment you could possibly do for your audio system.

EQ based on anechoic measurement data is of little or cero help regarding what’s going to happen below 500Hz, 300Hz. I have years of listening trainign, have played a lot with EQ and I don’t trust my own ears. I can tell when something is odd or out of balance, but that alone can’t lead me to fix it, I’m forced to take the mic and analyze in order to make any further judgement or training.

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

Maybe what you are hearing is the R7 pressurizing the room, while the R300 is not.

I could hypothesize that, the fact we are comparing a bookshelf with a floorstander, even placing both speakers in the same spot in the room, the ports will be at different place (height, and back wall since both cabinets have different depth). And this little difference could mean pressurization or the lack of it. But don’t take it for granted, this is just a thought.

Watching that measurement graph, leads me to think the difference in bass extension and spl between R3 and R7 would be really small, at least by ear. The most visible change is a little bit lower distortion below 50Hz. Getting the R7 at a similar price as R3 at least save you from having to spend extra cash for a stand.

Did you ask Kef for this specific measurement? because I don’t recall any of this on their whitepaper. If so, thanks for sharing it us, it’s interesting data for sure.

To get a real sense of what’s happening inside your listening space, I extremely recommend you to get an UMIK-1 measurement microphone (its really cheap, something like $75), and get to know how to use REW (its easy, there is a manual and a 101 pdf guide). I promise you, that’s going to be the absolute best investment you could possibly do for your audio system.

EQ based on anechoic measurement data is of little or cero help regarding what’s going to happen below 500Hz, 300Hz. I have years of listening trainign, have played a lot with EQ and I don’t trust my own ears. I can tell when something is odd or out of balance, but that alone can’t lead me to fix it, I’m forced to take the mic and analyze in order to make any further judgement or training.

Yep i asked to KEF for these measurements, thanks KEF!. Most of the brands doesn't give that info, +1 to KEF for being transparent , i think these measureent are made in his big room don't know, the bass in that kind of measurement are kind of always the same below 100hz...
even bigger towers i see the same.

But if i use my ears there is really clear difference in bass extension hearing electronica and thesse kind of stuff, with the R300 there is a lot of parts that the bass just roll off and doesn't produce that part of the song, with the R7 i don't hear that huge roll off...
I also listen to music at lower volumes, with my r300 i need to cranck a little bit the volume for getting that fun sound

 

[tecnogadget]

there could be a myriad of reasons, but nobody will know what’s happening until you take a measurement.
the confusion comes to the fact R300 is a different speaker than R3, so even not measuring in room, the info provided by Kef won’t solve this dilemma either (even though r300 bass extension should not be extremely different than R3).

R300: 42Hz – 45kHz (-6dB)
R3: 38Hz - 50Hz (-6dB)
That, by ear, should be very similar.

Another thing could be the R7 exciting a particular room mode. A peak on 50Hz, 60Hz, 70Hz, 80Hz, etc. Just to put an example, I could use my big 65” Tv for YouTube music when friends come home, and its response has a big bump on 100Hz
My R3 are set up to for flat response, I tamed the peaks of my room, so the bass response is relatively flat.
If I crank the Tv volume with bassy music, that 100Hz hump + the room modes makes it artificially sound like it has lots of bass. But that’s because its “bad” bass, and I’m sure that’s what everyone hears but they just don’t know it.
If I then switch and turn on the R3’s, the bass extension is obviously better, and since its flat as it should be without peaks, you listen to lower notes that weren’t present with the Tv. But at the same time you loose some of that “punch” or “weight” that was present on the inaccurate and accentuated upper bass of the TV.
The very same happens when listening PartyMusic with the R3’s room corrections On and Off. Sometimes I get fun telling my visitors “i’ve activated more bass” just turning Off room correction, and they are just listening to a big peak around 50Hz to 60Hz. Im sure they think that’s better because they just want to party...but in reality it is lesser quality bass.

Thats why I point out the must have for a measurement mic.

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

there could be a myriad of reasons, but nobody will know what’s happening until you take a measurement.
the confusion comes to the fact R300 is a different speaker than R3, so even not measuring in room, the info provided by Kef won’t solve this dilemma either (even though r300 bass extension should not be extremely different than R3).

R300: 42Hz – 45kHz (-6dB)
R3: 38Hz - 50Hz (-6dB)
That, by ear, should be very similar.

Another thing could be the R7 exciting a particular room mode. A peak on 50Hz, 60Hz, 70Hz, 80Hz, etc. Just to put an example, I could use my big 65” Tv for YouTube music when friends come home, and its response has a big bump on 100Hz
My R3 are set up to for flat response, I tamed the peaks of my room, so the bass response is relatively flat.
If I crank the Tv volume with bassy music, that 100Hz hump + the room modes makes it artificially sound like it has lots of bass. But that’s because its “bad” bass, and I’m sure that’s what everyone hears but they just don’t know it.
If I then switch and turn on the R3’s, the bass extension is obviously better, and since its flat as it should be without peaks, you listen to lower notes that weren’t present with the Tv. But at the same time you loose some of that “punch” or “weight” that was present on the inaccurate and accentuated upper bass of the TV.
The very same happens when listening PartyMusic with the R3’s room corrections On and Off. Sometimes I get fun telling my visitors “i’ve activated more bass” just turning Off room correction, and they are just listening to a big peak around 50Hz to 60Hz. Im sure they think that’s better because they just want to party...but in reality it is lesser quality bass.

Thats why I point out the must have for a measurement mic.

oh yes yes!! i have a peak only with the towers ( even with the foam plug, the '' o '' with the hole ) in the 88hz , i hadn'tthat peak in the bass with my r300, i had to lower it a little bit. -3dB or my towers sounds boomy
Now the data say
R300: 42Hz – 45kHz (-6dB)
R3: 38Hz - 50Hz (-6dB
R7: 33hz (-6dB )
but, don't take my comments too seriously, only that graph worth xD

 

[tecnogadget]

But how did you corroborate the peak is exactly 88Hz, or even around the 80ish without mic ? The YouTube video ? Never heard of anybody taking that approach. Trust me, get that Umik and you life will be easier and many times happier. You won’t be guessing, you will be enlightened by trustworthy data, palpable data.