Waxwing vs full analog for living room setup

[Geo2160]

I want to upgrade my living room setup from my Wiim Amp Ultra with an amp that has a little more oomph. I intend to get either an NCx252MP or a purify based amp from audiophonics. However, since my setup also includes a turntable, I would now have the option to try a full analog path or, with basically the same budget, a Waxwing phono DSP. What do you guys think would provide me with the best sound quality?

Unfortunately, I would not have the option to try everything within a standard return window since I live in Europe and I would have to get the waxwing shipped overseas

Current setup:
- KEF R3 Meta
- SVS SB-1000 Pro
- Turntable: Kenwood KP-1100, AT-VM740xML cart, iFi Zen Phono 3
- Wiim Amp Ultra

Use cases: Digital Streaming, Vinyl, TV (in that order)

Potential replacement paths for Wiim Amp Ultra:

1) Waxwing / AD-DA for TT

Pros:
- Room correction from Wiim for all inputs
- Subwoofer time alingment
- Simpler volume control

Cons:
- AD/DA for turntable (don't know if it matters)

2) Emotiva BasX PT2 / full analog for TT

Pros:
- Full analog path for turntable, including sub crossover

Cons:
- Room correction only for digital, have to rely on the SVS Subwoofer DSP to tame any room modes
- No time alignment
- Have to rely on the preamp remote for volume control

3) Emotiva BasX TA2

Pros/Cons: Same as option 2, but cheaper with a class a/b amp that I can't find measurments for.

 

[JeffS7444]

#1 would be my #1 choice. IMO, Waxwing is easily the single biggest vinyl sonic upgrade that I've ever made. Toslink output also offers more turntable placement flexibility, as the optical cable can be up to 10 meters in length.

 

[staticV3]

I highly doubt that the Amp Ultra is missing oomph for a high-passed R3 Meta.

Are you sure that you're maxing out the Amp?

Best confirm that with a cheap $10 multimeter before you spend tons on a new Amp.

Reason being that, unless you're really reaching the Amp Ultra's maximum output of ~28Vrms, no Amplifier upgrade will actually make a difference.

Regarding the turntable, there's no advantage to be had in a full-analog signal chain.

You're much better off with a digital intermediate for de-clicking, room correction, etc.

 

[Geo2160]

@JeffS7444 : Repositioning my TT would be a big perk for the Waxwing indeed. Forgot to mention that in the OP.

@staticV3 : I've heard the R3 Meta with more powerful amps when I purchased them. I noticed better bass response than what I'm able to achieve at home with the wiim. Don't know if that is due to the <2 ohm impedance, but I would like to try.

 

[staticV3]

I've heard the R3 Meta with more powerful amps when I purchased them. I noticed better bass response than what I'm able to achieve at home with the wiim. Don't know if that is due to the <2 ohm impedance, but I would like to try.

Below ~300Hz, you're listening to the room more than the speakers.

Attributing the difference in bass between your R3 Meta and another pair you heard in another environment to the Amp is a misconception.

A new Amp may well bring a perceived change thanks to confirmation bias, but make no mistake the physical sound will be the same.

 

[somebodyelse]

What <2 ohm impedance? The R3 Meta dips close to 3 ohms around 42Hz and 130Hz (eyeballing Erin's measurement plot). Are you thinking of EDPR which relates to heating in Class AB amps specifically, and doesn't apply to Class D?

I'd echo what @staticV3 says about whether you'd see any benefit from a change of amp. If you're wedded to a new amp then I'd go with option #1. Depending on which features you want the Waxwing for, you could also consider the MiniDSP PocketADC with your existing Zen Phono 3 for repositioning the TT. I got past my worries about AD/DA years ago.

 

[Bland_username42069]

Doesn’t wiim ultra have a line in? You can just plug both your tv and your turntable (via ifi phono pre) in that?

Personally I wouldn’t spent 500 euros on waxwing if you’re just playing good condition stereo recordings. Ifi can do that just as well as waxwing.

 

[somebodyelse]

Doesn’t wiim ultra have a line in? You can just plug both your tv and your turntable (via ifi phono pre) in that?

Personally I wouldn’t spent 500 euros on waxwing if you’re just playing good condition stereo recordings. Ifi can do that just as well as waxwing.

The Ultra has both a line in and mm phono in. The ADC doesn't have the greatest measured performance, but its noise and distortion will be lower than the vinyl surface noise and the various distortions inherent in vinyl playback. It's also got EQ that you can use in combination with a test record to compensate for the cartridge frequency response, similar to the Waxwing. It's missing the other Waxwing functionality though - the question is how much that functionality is worth to you.

 

[Shotgun Rico]

I have the Waxwing going into the optical input on my WiiM Ultra. Single best upgrade I’ve ever had in my audio journey.

 

[kemmler3D]

I don't think the AD / DA step is worth giving anything up to avoid in 2026. They'll be way more transparent than the vinyl format itself...

 

[Nomid]

I will recommend the waxwing too, i regard it as possibly the best piece of equipment in my chain, it gives access to DSP eq functions both through the waxwing and later in the digital chain and the built in magic function for clicks and pops is a fantastic thing for your favorite but not entirely new records.

Edit: also, in regards to the AD/DA step, it`s transparent. what we like about vinyls, it`s right there on the other side, warts and all

 

[stormobile]

I tried fixing ground loop between wiim ultra and turntable forever. I could like hear the clicks when I touched wiim body and I finally ordered waxwing. Best 500 bucks spent on vinyl in years. No loops, magic does hmm magic. I like listen to clean music without much clicks. Quick level checks were very useful to do some tuning in place. I can also play around with eq without clunky wiim presets and app navigation. I am listening mostly to vinyl these days ( helps me fight compulsive track hopping when listening to digital) and with waxwing I dont feel much compromise. Btw, I have almost the same setup: kef r3 metas, svs-1000, buckeyes power amp, wiim ultra, dr feickert volare tt ( ground loop was on vintage dd , there are no loops with this) don’t judge this is jewelry- not technology I need it to feel nice )

 

[JP]

Pros:
- Full analog path for turntable, including sub crossover

A couple months late, but how is that a pro?

You're looking at the wrong levers. Since you're running MM, the load presented to the cartridge should be the largest factor influencing real changes in the sound. Those AT MM like very low capacitance, if as close to flat as possible is your goal.

Any competent phono stage - whether DSP at heart or analog - will do just fine. For MM, load requirements should be top of mind followed by feature set.

 

[Bland_username42069]

A couple months late, but how is that a pro?

You're looking at the wrong levers. Since you're running MM, the load presented to the cartridge should be the largest factor influencing real changes in the sound. Those AT MM like very low capacitance, if as close to flat as possible is your goal.

Any competent phono stage - whether DSP at heart or analog - will do just fine. For MM, load requirements should be top of mind followed by feature set.

His phono pre allows him to do that

 

[JP]

Seemed obvious it was general guidance.

 

[Bland_username42069]

Well he’s asking for specifics

 

[Balle Clorin]

Waxwing does more for your Vinyl playback set up and flexibility than any other preamp can do.
I run my Puffin with optical toslink to preamp digital input. I can use a loading plug splitter to do C and R tuning , but Puffin( now waxwing ) EQ functions does it better in my case.

 

[JP]

Well he’s asking for specifics

I prefer to teach people how to fish. If that doesn’t work for you, feel free to ignore the post, or better yet, add something helpful.

 

[Balle Clorin]

Doesn’t wiim ultra have a line in? You can just plug both your tv and your turntable (via ifi phono pre) in that?

Personally I wouldn’t spent 500 euros on waxwing if you’re just playing good condition stereo recordings. Ifi can do that just as well as waxwing.

You are probably not familiar with what the Waxwing can do. Most people notice the Magic click removal , which is about 10% of the functionality the unit has

 

[Bland_username42069]

You are probably not familiar with what the Waxwing can do. Most people notice the Magic click removal , which is about 10% of the functionality the unit has

I have one. I use it for 78s

Magic will have no effect on good condition stereo records because they won’t be scratched…

And I find magic can audibly degrade the sound of a record.

I ever confidence Shannon will improve the algorithm though.