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Watches in the 21st Century

pseudoid

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“At the tone, the time will be 4 hours and 10 minutes, Coordinated Universal Time…Beeep!”
The old man (an ME) toiled over a 6 foot pendulum clock design from scratch ('raw-metal' scratch, that is), starting in the early '60s. By the time he had gotten down to less than 1 second variations (using barometric compensation and teeny-weeny weights on the bottom of the pendulum) it was the '70s. There was this Die-Hard battery driven pawl that would nudge the pendulum every 30 seconds and you could hear it all over the house, although the whole apparatus was in the basement. Every night, 5 mintues before 2100Hours, he would put on his headphones (with a snifter of JW RedLabel) and offset-synchronize the ticks (and the tocks) to WWV, and jot down the nightly variance-results on a ledger. At one point, he gave up for about a month because he could not stand the (India) Indian accent of the "At the tone, the time will be 4 hours and 10 minutes, Coordinated Universal Time…Beeep!” I think there were 4 letter-e in his "BeeeEp":rolleyes:
 

MRC01

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... The old man (an ME) toiled over a 6 foot pendulum clock design from scratch ('raw-metal' scratch, that is), starting in the early '60s. By the time he had gotten down to less than 1 second variations (using barometric compensation and teeny-weeny weights on the bottom of the pendulum) it was the '70s. ...
Pendulum clocks can be incredibly consistent if they are in a stable environment. My dad built a grandfather clock with a Hermle movement. With nothing more than fine adjustments to the pendulum length (using a convenient screw for just this purpose), it can be tweaked to within about 3 seconds per week. It is temperature sensitive, needs to be adjusted each spring & fall.
 

Blumlein 88

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Pendulum clocks can be incredibly consistent if they are in a stable environment. My dad built a grandfather clock with a Hermle movement. With nothing more than fine adjustments to the pendulum length (using a convenient screw for just this purpose), it can be tweaked to within about 3 seconds per week. It is temperature sensitive, needs to be adjusted each spring & fall.
Yeah my parents have a German grandfather clock from about 1900. I adjusted it to about 12 seconds per week. Also with a twice per year change in spring and fall. I kept it fast so that each time I raised the weights I stopped the pendulum and got the weights up in that 5-6 seconds. And restarted the pendulum swinging. Took me a couple years to get it right. It's a Dufa brand.
 

rdenney

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Pendulum clocks can be incredibly consistent if they are in a stable environment. My dad built a grandfather clock with a Hermle movement. With nothing more than fine adjustments to the pendulum length (using a convenient screw for just this purpose), it can be tweaked to within about 3 seconds per week. It is temperature sensitive, needs to be adjusted each spring & fall.

There were strategies for that, too. One was to use a glass vial filled with mercury as the weight—the shape of the vial could be designed so that as the mercury expanded, it would counteract the effect of expansion on the pendulum stick. Another was to alternate brass and steel rods arranged to offset thermal expansion. Then came the use of Invar, a nickel alloy, that has a near-zero thermal coefficient. Better watches use Glucydur for the balance wheel for that purpose.

The best clocks used a very heavy weight and the smallest arc possible to avoid circular error (the gravity vector is only at unity when the pendulum stick is vertical). This required superb craft on the escapement and verge—the smaller the movement of the pendulum, the greater the effect of a given machining error.

The period is controlled by the length. Tall case clocks are tall because a one-meter pendulum beats 3600 times an hour (once per second), which is convenient.

I have a tall case clock that I built with a standard modern (cheap) movement. It’s not too bad—within a minute a week. The pendulum’s arc is large with the empty-shell bob. I had to limit the size of the bob to keep it from banging the sides of the case.

But I have a 120-year-old Gilbert jeweler’s regulator that has a wax-impregnated wooden pendulum stick, a dead-beat escapement, and a 4” bob that is filled with lead and heavy. The swing is about two inches with a period of about 2/3 second. I can regulate that one to a handful of seconds per week. It was used as a reference clock at a jewelry store for regulating customer clocks.

Both are weight-driven and thus maintain good isochronism. A spring-driven clock had to be used on ships, and those used a funnel-shaped spring barrel called a fusee to counteract the decline in force as the spring winds down. For stationary clocks, weights are easier.

I have a couple of dozen clocks in the house, but I don’t usually run them. The ticking drives the Redhead mad (I’m already there) and you’re toast if in the middle of a Zoom meeting at noon, especially towards the end of the week when the 8-day clocks would be drifting apart. Other than the tall case clock, the newest one dated from the 1920’s.

Rick “watches take less space” Denney
 
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Ron Texas

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@MRC01 the 7S26 is somewhat of a headache as it cannot be hand wound. That means couch potatoes have to give the watch a few shakes when removing it or the watch may stop overnight. The movement is still widely used in the Seiko 5 line.
 

MRC01

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The Seiko 5 / 7S26 is the cheapest decent mechanical watch that I've seen. A few years ago I got one for a 3 week trip to S America when I didn't want to wear anything that draws attention. It's practical and reliable and I free-dove with it to around 30-40 feet depth, no problems. It doesn't run down if I wear it daily, or even every other day, so it seems to have around 36 hours reserve. It's not very consistent, constantly changing speed even when sitting in a single position. This makes it hard to regulate, but I was able to get it to average out to "neutral" in the long term despite swinging +/- 20 seconds from day to day.
 

rdenney

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The Seiko 5 / 7S26 is the cheapest decent mechanical watch that I've seen. A few years ago I got one for a 3 week trip to S America when I didn't want to wear anything that draws attention. It's practical and reliable and I free-dove with it to around 30-40 feet depth, no problems. It doesn't run down if I wear it daily, or even every other day, so it seems to have around 36 hours reserve. It's not very consistent, constantly changing speed even when sitting in a single position. This makes it hard to regulate, but I was able to get it to average out to "neutral" in the long term despite swinging +/- 20 seconds from day to day.
Yup. The 4R36 is better and also hand-winds. My Seiko SRP-series Black Monster uses it and it is quite well regulated. I'd take that one down a lot deeper than 30-40 feet, except that I won't take myself down deeper than 10 feet. But, yes, it averages out to keeping time but varies around that average quite a bit.

Citizen has a series similar to the Seiko 5 that is competent. The usual similar offerings from Russia and China sometimes to well, but it's a bit more of a gamble with them. I have several watches with the venerable ST-5 Seagull movement, including an original early-60's Dong Feng, and those run well but show a lot of positional variation.

Rick "all are better than old Timex-style cheapies with pin-lever escapements, however" Denney
 
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Ron Texas

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I have a 1st gen Seiko Orange Monster and it has seen a few dives in the 30-to-40-meter zone. There is an unbranded version of the 4R36 (NH36, NH38) which can be found in $200 watches here: https://longislandwatch.com/islander-watches/
 

pseudoid

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There were strategies for that, too. One was to use a glass vial filled with mercury as the weight—the shape of the vial could be designed so that as the mercury expanded, it would counteract the effect of expansion on the pendulum stick. Another was to alternate brass and steel rods arranged to offset thermal expansion. Then came the use of Invar, a nickel alloy, that has a near-zero thermal coefficient. Better watches use Glucydur for the balance wheel for that purpose.
Indeed, he had mixed some dissimilar (temperature/expansion) metals, as per your impressive description...
But he preferred drinking his JohnyWalker, rather than mercury.:rolleyes:
 

JJB70

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My daily wear is a Huawei GT2 smart watch, as others have mentioned it is inexpensive, has good fitness tracking and great battery life. It is completely accurate and has functionality no mechanical watch could hope to match. However I view it as an appliance, a brilliant appliance but not something I have any great love for.
On the other hand I love my mechanical watches. Looked at objectively they are inaccurate, too expensive and painfully limited functionality in today's world but I have a passion for them. I love the precision of mechanical watches, the marriage of engineering and art and the heritage. There's not much of a logical reason to be interested in mechanical watches but we're not creatures of just logic.
That said, even as a watch enthusiast I find the watch hobby just as bonkers as audio. The'Swiss Made' moniker is borderline fraudulent in my opinion (a lot of'Swiss' watches are assembled in Switzerland from what amount to kits made in China), watches costing $$$$$$$s using low cost ETA, Selitta etc movements and trying to hide it by applying their own movement name) and then there's the fake heritage story. Not very edifying but I still love mechanical watches.
 

RayDunzl

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I bought at cheap Casio watch ($15) early last year for use at the airport flying gliders. Otherwise, it sits in the trunk of the car.

I set it as accurately as I could after purchase.

Just now, after about 17 months, it occurred to me to set the time, since it would likely be off by a few minutes.

It was 2 seconds different from the (presumed accurate) PC clock, and the "Atomic" wall clock that sets itself every night..

I'm wowed by that unexpected result.

That's good as it saves me trying to figure out which buttons to press in what order to set it, having forgotten.

2 seconds (if that) after 44,064,000 more or less.

I wonder how accurately I set it initially? I'm sure I tried.


shopping
 
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RayDunzl

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Or maybe it's an hour an two seconds off, since I didn't take the Daylight Savings Time change into account.
 

JeffS7444

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I enjoyed this video of a couple of guys equipped with a fancy focus-stacking microscope, getting their watch-geek on:
I think they do a great job at presenting reasons why someone might obsess over the things, though seeing the amount of microscopic damage caused by normal use is sort of daunting too.
 

TonyJZX

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I have basically three watches I rotate thru the week... an eta 7750... you should know what that is. And an Orient dive watch and an Orient dress watch.

Orient is my brand. My most expensive watch is the Omega Seamaster 1120 going way back.

I work in tech but I really dislike quartz. There's sometime romantic about automatics... in the same way I would love to drive a manual car and find there's something wrong with modern automatic cars.
 

pseudoid

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I have a few (okay, more than a few) automatic watches but for the past few years I daily-wear a BR03-92.
It has become a ritual to just wrap it in a face towel before a shower.
All the other abuse I give it, I don't think it gives a damn... and neither do I!
Okay, I admit, it probably loses about 20 seconds/week. We don't discuss it... because neither of us gives a damn!:oops:
One thing for certain, if I ever have to replace this one... DLC (diamond-like compounds, and/or any other kinds of coatings) will never happen again on a purchase.
 

sonitus mirus

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Or maybe it's an hour an two seconds off, since I didn't take the Daylight Savings Time change into account.
It would be interesting to know if it was wildly inaccurate over time with temperature changes in the trunk and you just happened to catch it when it was swinging back from one extreme to the other.
 
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