Watches - Are These the Best of Times or Worst of Times?

[TheWalkman]

I just posted this over on a Class D thread (Aiyima Mono Block review) and thought I might start a dedicated thread on the watch market. I’m curious to hear your thoughts.

To me, the amp problem is, essentially a solved problem with inexpensive, near perfect Class D products. From my unscientific observations, the watch market seems to be in the same place with relatively affordable, intelligent watches that do, essentially, everything one could desire.

What have the intelligent watches (Apple, Fitbit, Garmin, etc.) done to the watch market? Have they raised the average watch price while devastating the low end (Casio, Timex, no-name) brands? Have these intelligent products also hurt the mid to high-end products like Rolex and Tag?

I own a couple of nice quartz and mechanical watches. However, they are collecting dust. I currently wear an Apple Ultra (which I’ve had for two years), which is my ultimate watch for many reasons.

There are so many intelligent watches out there, but for me, the Apple Ultra is and endgame watch. Yes, it’s a bit bulky and the battery life isn’t the longest, but it keeps perfect time, tracks my activity, sleep, heart rate, and much, much, more. If an Ultra X is released with a 5-day battery life, I might consider upgrading, but the main point is that I’ll have no interest in owning more watches, and I’ll certainly never go back to a regular watch. (And owning a Purifi Class D amplifier from Audiophonics means I’ll never buy another amp.)

My questions are:

a) Have Class D amplifiers completely disrupted the mid to high-end amp market? Can the mid-tier players survive?

b) Have intelligent watches (Apple, Garmin, Fitbit, etc.) similarly upended the watch market and caused traditional, low and mid-tier brands like Seiko and Citizen to struggle

 

[escape2]

b) Have intelligent watches (Apple, Garmin, Fitbit, etc.) similarly upended the watch market and caused traditional, low and mid-tier brands like Seiko and Citizen to struggle

I can't speak for larger market in general, but to me personally, these are two different applications for two different purposes. If I'm tracking my steps or doing some other exercise, I'll wear my smart watch. BTW, I mostly use it as a semi-dumb watch. This way the battery lasts me 1 month between recharges.
Now, if I'm going out and dressing up a bit, I will wear one of my mechanicals. This is akin to wearing jewelry, so it can't really be replaced by a typical smart watch with its hi-tech looks.

Smart watches created a brand new niche/market - a lot of people who wear them never really wore a traditional watch before. And the main reason they want a smart watch is because it's an extension of their smartphone and not necessarily to tell time. On the other hand, those who appreciate the craftsmanship of their mechanicals will probably not be able to replace it with a smart watch. However, those folks may still buy a smart watch as a second watch for all the benefits/convenience that it provides. It's almost like vinyl vs MP3/streaming.

 

[TheWalkman]

escape,

Great observations.

Over the past ten years, I’ve casually noticed younger folks giving up wristwatches and using their cellphones as their timepiece. It seems many of my peers in their fifties and sixties have also chosen to give up wearing watches as well.

As a tail-end boomer, I always felt naked without my watch.

With the introduction of the smartwatch, this trend seems to have reversed: I’m noticing many of my friends and their kids wearing smartwatches nearly exclusively.

I agree that a lot of folks use watches, particularly luxury brands, as jewelry/ image projections more than anything else. Though I wore suits for much of my career, when I do need to put on a coat and tie, I’ll swap out the nylon band on my Apple Watch for a metal band to look a bit dressier.

 

[BillH]

I use an automatic (self winding mechanical) watch. I can’t easily wear a smartwatch at work. I think it’s kind of fascinating that my reasonably affordable second hand old-school watch can keep powered and keep time to less than one minute of error per month of use. It looks like jewelry too!

 

[BlackTalon]

I've got a manual or automatic on my wrist every work day. I do have a quartz Sinn, but I have not worn it in 2-3 years. Not interested in digital watches, and especially not interested in 'smart' watches. Last think I need is my watch telling me I don't exercise or sleep enough, and that I'm too fat -- that's the wife's job (and even worse, my 80+ year old mother's).

 

[Joe Smith]

I see a lot of Apple watches out there, but I rarely see people actually using one. They seem more like a status symbol to me! But is it actually a status symbol when every other person has one? (Same way I feel about BMWs and Mercedes, frankly.)

I have a cheap smartwatch that I wear at night to track sleep data and heart rate in a rudimentary way, or when I go for long hikes when travelling to track miles walked.

I own about 30 watches, many due to my father in law's old collection currently in my keeping. One expensive Omega and then many less expensive every day watches. Recently, I've bought a number of inexpensive Addiesdive quartz watches for little, they look like Rolexes but for a fraction of the price. Two of them have the VH31 seiko movement which looks like a manual watch and is very, very accurate. These Chinese watches are awfully good for the money, I have to say, and for around $60 for most, very good looking units.

My best dive watch is a Seiko, an automatic, also very accurate, and with a big power reserve. If I could only keep one watch, that would be the one, as unlike the Omega I don't have to ultra-careful with it.

As to the Chinese class D amps - again, awfully good value for the money, they can fill stereo use cases for a lot of folks. Go up a click to Hypex or Purifi builds - more power, OK reliability, good sound.

I think all of these tech/engineered items are continually pushing the price point lower and delivering good value for the money.

 

[Leon74]

A few casio watches here, powered by solar energy and atomic time keeping. So never batteries that need replacing or recharging and always the right time down to the second.
Very reliable too: The first one I bought about 20 years ago and still working perfectly like I bought it yesterday, without any servicing. No smart watches for me.
Already having to recharge two smartphones and an e-reader, I don't want to add another rechargeable device.

 

[pablolie]

I have sub zero interest in smart watches... yet another device to charge. my smartphone is enough and does everything better.

 

[Mikig]

answer to your questions:

a) in my opinion no, they continue to sell SS class A, AB, B or tube amplifiers. Even if the measured performance of class D is good, it is not a given that the public chooses based only on performance. There are many other factors that affect choices. For example, I have all types of amplification, when I find what I like regardless of the "class" I take it home ....

B) I don't know, I haven't seen the sales rankings for watch brands. I personally don't use Smart Watches, I continue to wear traditional watches. An old adage says: the only jewel a man can wear is a watch .... and I respect that!

 

[JiiPee]

My answers:
a) No. The high-end (I use the term "high end" here to denote the high price/luxury market segment, not necessarily the "highest performing" products) has not embraced the D-class technology yet. It remains to be seen, if it ever will.

b) To some extent, yes, but the bigger impact to low- and mid-tier segements has been due to younger people often wearing no watch whatsoever. Again, the high end market segment continues to be dominated by traditional technology, and young people have never been a big client segment for high end watches, as relatively few youngsters can afford to buy one.

 

[Keith_W]

It's strange, isn't it. In 2024, watches are no longer used for telling the time. People wear smartwatches not for the time, but for the "smart" features.

As for me, I wear my mechanical watch. But I don't use it to tell the time, I wear it out of habit and because I don't feel dressed if I leave home without it. And I don't look at it when I am with company either, since it is rude to look at your watch (or your smartphone) when you are with people.

 

[Petrushka]

I have three Citizen solar powered watches. They are accurate to about one minute per year.

They sit on my window ledge.

 

[TonyJZX]

i think there's a few facts going in...

Apple did an ultra smart thing by going to watches because their sales of watches I think outstrips Japan and Swiss watch market as a whole in sales... and this happened almost overnight!

however to me I can never move from mechanical watches... its a strange one because the new Ultra is actually cheaper than the last mechanical watch I just bought... but I feel like Apple watches are ephemeral... they will be replaced by the "Ultra 3" next year...

and I also have a few quartz watches.... in fact I bought a Casio Edifice for $100 that pretty much *SHOULD* be my last and only watch until I kick off this planet but in reality... I just like auto watches....

There's something that's hard to explain in words why I choose mechanical as a day to day.

In a perfect world I would drive a manual car.

I can never even see myself using a quartz so to move to a smart watch? No. There was a time I used the Xiaomi Smart Band stuff but they told me the same thing that I didnt need to know.

Here's a paradox... like many of you guys, I was in STEM... I spent decades as a network eng. and so being around computers is a normal thing. And yet there's many tech guys who want that old classic Thinkpad, the manual V8 sports car, the mechanical watch... if you're around tech all the time maybe you dont want tech in every part of your life...

I didnt like the excess simplicity of something like this:

https://imgur.com/a/zk31E9q

now I'm super ok with it.

 

[Rednaxela]

A few casio watches here, powered by solar energy and atomic time keeping. So never batteries that need replacing or recharging and always the right time down to the second.
Very reliable too: The first one I bought about 20 years ago and still working perfectly like I bought it yesterday, without any servicing. No smart watches for me.
Already having to recharge two smartphones and an e-reader, I don't want to add another rechargeable device.

Couldn’t agree more. Solar power plus radio controlled accuracy solved the time keeping problem.

Smart watches are a step down from this however useful the functions are that one gets in return.

 

[Frank Dernie]

I can't speak for larger market in general, but to me personally, these are two different applications for two different purposes. If I'm tracking my steps or doing some other exercise, I'll wear my smart watch. BTW, I mostly use it as a semi-dumb watch. This way the battery lasts me 1 month between recharges.
Now, if I'm going out and dressing up a bit, I will wear one of my mechanicals. This is akin to wearing jewelry, so it can't really be replaced by a typical smart watch with its hi-tech looks.

Smart watches created a brand new niche/market - a lot of people who wear them never really wore a traditional watch before. And the main reason they want a smart watch is because it's an extension of their smartphone and not necessarily to tell time. On the other hand, those who appreciate the craftsmanship of their mechanicals will probably not be able to replace it with a smart watch. However, those folks may still buy a smart watch as a second watch for all the benefits/convenience that it provides. It's almost like vinyl vs MP3/streaming.

I have amassed several watches over the years. I still prefer mechanical watch movements, I am a mechanical engineer, but got seduced by the accuracy and attraction of solar powered radio controlled watches, first from Junghans decades ago and later Citizen with more functions but I don't wear them any more.

I tried an Apple watch but it had far more functions than I need, no hands and needed frequent charging so I gave it to my son who loves it and uses it all the time.

I found the Withings smart watch had more than enough functions and proper hands so wear that if I want to check heart rate and blood oxygen etc but usually wear an IWC Portugese perpetual calendar I have had for 15 years because I like it much more and delight in the complexity of a mechanical perpetual calendar...

 

[blucupp]

High end watches are works of art that serve no real purpose.

Everyone uses their phone to tell time now.

 

[Frank Dernie]

Everyone uses their phone to tell time now.

Don't be stupid.
I don't.
My wife doesn't even have a mobile phone.

 

[blucupp]

Don't be stupid.
I don't.
My wife doesn't even have a mobile phone.

Why not?

 

[Multicore]

I'm not sure about the analogy. I don't use a smart watch because they are networked and I don't want to participate in that. I use Class D amps without that concern.

 

[Multicore]

Why not? Are you Amish?

On an internet discussion forum about hi-fi?