Warning - Speaker Cable Observation

[BumrahTheGreat]

Hi all

Please go easy but wanted to ask something without causing any arguments. If you aren't interested then just move on, but if you have a general opinion and experience then it would be good to hear it.

I have used various speaker cables over the years but never been too fussed about it really. I used some Chord Rumour (silver coating or whatever) for years and years and then moved onto some Audioquest Rocket 11 which was on offer and looked nice in the room etc. I had to move electronics around in the listening room (not speakers) and the Audioquest was no longer long enough so i had to revert back to some Van Damme 2.5mm Blue that i bought years ago. I remember using this years ago and thinking it sounded "veiled" at the time compared to my Chord stuff so it got put back in a box. Anyway, after a few weeks of listening to the Van Damme stuff i found myself needing to put the volume up slightly more than previously but overall i have really enjoyed listening to loads of different music. I haven't found any of it fatiguing at higher volumes (which has sometimes happened before) but also unless this is confirmation bias i have found the sound more "rounded" with no real emphasis on any frequencies and without vocals for example jumping out over the instruments if that makes sense. Now the Audioquest cable was 17AWG and the Van Damme is twin axial and 14AWG and the runs are only approx 2m. Is there a chance that the different physical properties of the cables are making an audible difference or am i going mad? I have gone and plugged the Audioquest back in and listened again (not blind) and i am certain i can hear a difference. It's not "night and day" and i am not hearing loads of details that i didn't before or loads more bass etc but there seems to be a different sound overall, slightly. Either way i am happy so won't be changing anything but from most of what i have read, any difference shouldn't really be audible.

 

[MaxwellsEq]

Is there a chance that the different physical properties of the cables are making an audible difference or am i going mad?

You've not gone mad. We've all heard difference when swapping components even though the physics clearly denied the possibility of there being a change. Put it down to confirmation bias or some other weirdness in our brains.

However, there may be a difference. Far more important for us to understand what is happening is your speakers and amplifier details, which you don't supply. There are (poorly thought through) combinations of speaker and amp where the different impedance of the cable might affect high frequencies.

 

[Coltr@ne]

is it a choice not to name what connects what?

 

[Sir Sanders Zingmore]

not blind

Do it blind and report back

 

[whereisbrian]

Hi all

Please go easy but wanted to ask something without causing any arguments. If you aren't interested then just move on, but if you have a general opinion and experience then it would be good to hear it.

I have used various speaker cables over the years but never been too fussed about it really. I used some Chord Rumour (silver coating or whatever) for years and years and then moved onto some Audioquest Rocket 11 which was on offer and looked nice in the room etc. I had to move electronics around in the listening room (not speakers) and the Audioquest was no longer long enough so i had to revert back to some Van Damme 2.5mm Blue that i bought years ago. I remember using this years ago and thinking it sounded "veiled" at the time compared to my Chord stuff so it got put back in a box. Anyway, after a few weeks of listening to the Van Damme stuff i found myself needing to put the volume up slightly more than previously but overall i have really enjoyed listening to loads of different music. I haven't found any of it fatiguing at higher volumes (which has sometimes happened before) but also unless this is confirmation bias i have found the sound more "rounded" with no real emphasis on any frequencies and without vocals for example jumping out over the instruments if that makes sense. Now the Audioquest cable was 17AWG and the Van Damme is twin axial and 14AWG and the runs are only approx 2m. Is there a chance that the different physical properties of the cables are making an audible difference or am i going mad? I have gone and plugged the Audioquest back in and listened again (not blind) and i am certain i can hear a difference. It's not "night and day" and i am not hearing loads of details that i didn't before or loads more bass etc but there seems to be a different sound overall, slightly. Either way i am happy so won't be changing anything but from most of what i have read, any difference shouldn't really be audible.

You could listen to your equipment 10 times, or even 100 times with different cables, and you would hear differences every time.
And even without changing the cables. That's how our brains are wired.

 

[TheKoC]

People have such a hard time letting go of the idea that their ears/brain are an even remotely accurate measuring device. They are not. The difference between two 2m long (competently build) speaker cables will be non existent / so minimal that you will not be able to hear a difference.

To OP: Unless you do a blind ABX Test, you will allways be chasing ghosts. If you listen for a difference, you will hear a difference. Thats just how our brain works.

 

[Curvature]

Your hearing is active, not passive, and also not entirely volitional. You aren't comparing the same auditory scene each time.

 

[Bruce Morgen]

Your hearing is active, not passive, and also not entirely volitional.

Wisdom!

 

[BumrahTheGreat]

You've not gone mad. We've all heard difference when swapping components even though the physics clearly denied the possibility of there being a change. Put it down to confirmation bias or some other weirdness in our brains.

However, there may be a difference. Far more important for us to understand what is happening is your speakers and amplifier details, which you don't supply. There are (poorly thought through) combinations of speaker and amp where the different impedance of the cable might affect high frequencies.

Yeah thanks, apologies for not providing that information. Amplifier is an Exposure 3510 integrated and the speakers are Rega RX3.

Thanks
Tom

 

[Curvature]

Wisdom!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auditory_scene_analysis If you are interested in the underlying science.

 

[DVDdoug]

The "simple science" is that cable resistance (Ohms) should be low relative to speaker impedance (also Ohms). If the cable resistance is 1/10th of speaker impedance that's about 1dB of signal loss. And since speaker impedance isn't constant over the frequency range you'll get some small frequency response variations (less than 1dB).

So you usually want the cable resistance to be less 1/10th of the speaker impedance. If you have a bad connection or bad connectors they will add to the resistance, and of course a flaky-intermittent connection can change the resistance (and sound) when the wires are wiggled.

Cable resistance is proportional to length and inversely proportional to diameter. (Wire Resistance Chart) 16AWG copper wire is 4-Ohms per 1000 feet. Total resistance is "round trip" so with 100 feet of speaker wire you have 0.8 Ohms or 1/10th of an 8-Ohm speaker and you probably could get away with that, but you also probably want thicker (lower gauge) cable. At 10 feet and 0.08 Ohms you are OK.

14AWG cable seems to be popular around here. It's like "extra insurance", it doesn't cost much more, and it fits most speaker connectors.

Note that aluminum or CCA (copper clad aluminum) has about 50% higher resistance so you can either use lower-gauge (fatter) wire or better yet, just avoid it.

James Randi (RIP) once proposed a Million Dollar Bet that a famous audiophile couldn't hear a difference between cables in a proper blind listening test. Unfortunately the test never took place.

See What is an ABX Test? An ABX test is a way to determine if you can statistically and reliably hear ANY difference. It doesn't ask which sounds better, just whether you can identify "X". It also doesn't "prove" anything... But there is only about a 1/1000 chance of guessing correctly 10 out of 10 times so that's "nearly proof".

When you've got about 40 minutes, Amir has a good video: Controlled Audio Blind Listening Tests

Audiophoolery is also worth reading.