• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Walker's "Little Wonder" (Quad ESL 57) - Your Opinions/Experience?

ferrellms

Active Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2019
Messages
296
Likes
254
Well, you asked - these guys are obsolete and pretty colored even when new. Any speaker you have to "get used to" the tone of is poor. And they are expensive and unreliable. Just about anything recommended in these forum will be as good or better on 90% of what you listen to. Forget about capturing that elusive "magic moment" with that special recording from your audiophile youth and go for accuracy above all. Modern speakers (such as active monitors) are so much better top to bottom.
 
OP
MattHooper

MattHooper

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 27, 2019
Messages
7,195
Likes
11,808
Indeed! All opinions welcome. Thanks!
 

Blumlein 88

Grand Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 23, 2016
Messages
20,523
Likes
37,056
I've encountered that description for other electrostatics. In fact, I owned a set of Acoustats (actually, three sets crossed my path). The best of the bunch was, IMO, the 2+2s, which were tall and narrow. So you didn't get the vertical 'beam' (although the horizontal remained a problem). One day an acquaintance with a good ear came to listen. He casually mentioned that the Acoustat's imparted a 'plastic' credit-cardish kind of sound to the music.

Well, that did it for me. I never noticed it before, but from then on all I could hear was his plastic credit card analogy. You know, the sound you get when you pick or ping the card. Shortly thereafter I sold them. Shortly thereafter I sort of missed them. Nothing is ever one size fits all, it seems.

As an aside, in the US, original Quad distribution was (as far as I know) via Bud Fried, a hi-fi salon owner in Philly. He imported them, sold them through his store front, and probably mail order-- I don't know about that. This was in the mid '60s, I believe. The few who owned them might use Paoli modified Dynaco amplifiers. McIntosh or Marantz tubes, and so forth.

When four channel Japanese systems were becoming (not so) popular, Quad ran small ads in Audio magazine warning people that the word 'quad' was trademarked, and had nothing to do with four channel sound hardware. The company argued how in the vernacular, the press should stop using the word 'quad' to mean four channel audio. But by then it was too late, and no one cared. No one cared for four channel, and few had ever heard Quad ESLs. Besides, Quality Unit Amplifier Domestic sounded too much like what you'd find in a sealed can, in a K-Ration.
I'd agree somewhat about the credit card plastic quality. One thing lots of people didn't notice is Acoustat in 2 and 2+2 angled the two panels slightly. Contrary to expectations this increased the head in a vice quality of them. The 1+1's weren't like that, but were too thin left to right. My favorite of those I have heard were the Acoustat 3's. I think they made some 6's which were like 3+3's and likely would have liked them. One thing I like about my Soundlabs which share a lot of design similarity with the Acoustat is they don't have a plastic quality to them, and panels have a gentle curve rather than angled flat panels side by side.
 

Blumlein 88

Grand Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 23, 2016
Messages
20,523
Likes
37,056
Never having owned the 57s I've never put any thought in to the ESL 57 arcing issue.

But I do have some access to borrowing the 57s if I want. Would my CJ tube amps at 140W/side pose any particular danger in running the 57s?
Most definitely a danger. In the words of Peter Walker, he said something like, "Big American amps would just light them up (referring to the arcing), destroy them" and he was referring to things like the big McIntosh tube amps.

Find out the gain of your amp (probably 26 db or 20x the input voltage), and measure the preamp so its max signal can never create more than 23 volts RMS out on the amp. Basically find out where the max volume on your preamp needs to be. I'd then back off 6 db and not play them higher than that. You'll probably find that is plenty anyway.
 
Last edited:

Blumlein 88

Grand Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 23, 2016
Messages
20,523
Likes
37,056
Well, you asked - these guys are obsolete and pretty colored even when new. Any speaker you have to "get used to" the tone of is poor. And they are expensive and unreliable. Just about anything recommended in these forum will be as good or better on 90% of what you listen to. Forget about capturing that elusive "magic moment" with that special recording from your audiophile youth and go for accuracy above all. Modern speakers (such as active monitors) are so much better top to bottom.
Well, in my case, I didn't have to get used to the tone of them. Within about 5 minutes I knew I HAD to have some (in the case of the ESL 63). Never immediately loved the sound of a speaker so much almost instantly.
 

Dennis Murphy

Major Contributor
Technical Expert
Joined
Mar 17, 2020
Messages
1,071
Likes
4,535
A friend brought me a pair of in-spec 57's several years ago. He had the usual complaint that the highs disappeared if you stood up, which was generally attributed to what was thought to be the tweeter's inherently restricted vertical dispersion. He asked me to splice on a ribbon tweeter to improve matters. It seemed like a reasonable suggestion, but the ribbon super tweeter really didn't help. The problem wasn't the panel tweeter's fault--it was destructive interference between the tweeter panel and the adjacent woofer panel in the vertical plane. Designers in the -50's and '60's didn't pay much attention to interference effects like this (witness the AR2 and AR3 series). On axis, the '57's response was pretty good (see below). There was a little less baffle step compensation that is normal these days, and as a result the midrange stood out a little and gave a "full" sound to vocals, which many people liked. I didn't hear any "credit card" coloration, and I think that may be another audio urban legend. On the other hand, I didn't find anything magical about the sound. It was just better than most of the other speakers of the day when listening on axis.
1660852210083.png
 

Godataloss

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2021
Messages
468
Likes
510
Location
Northern Ohio
As young highschoolers. my cousin and I went to a dilapidated storefront in Cleveland c. 1990 or so. As soon as the door shut out the hostilely cold February evening, I became aware of a weight of warmth to the air that had nothing to do with temperature. It was a repair shop that had some gear and records for sale- stacked haphazardly here and there. The space was relatively small, but high-ceilinged and open- a few shelves, but most items were on the floor looking almost discarded with narrow pathways all radiating from a small cleared area opposite the door where resting on the thin threadbare carpet was a record player (Garrard?) and a pair of 57s about ten feet apart. That this setup was responsible for what I was hearing did not register at first. It looked alien to me- or ancient. The emotion in the music: it was Billie Holiday I would learn- we had walked in on Strange Fruit, was disorienting. I felt as if I had stumbled into a tomb or a funeral and what I was hearing was somehow sacred or at least immensely private. It was someone else's love and loss, but I couldn't help but suffuse it. The shop owner was on the floor curled by the record player, did he nod to us? I couldn't tell you what he looked like or what else was in the store or even what it was called. I don't remember leaving. I've since searched for it-hopelessly- it's certainly long gone by now- as is that dumbstruck kid, but I promise to keep looking.
 

Phorize

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Apr 26, 2019
Messages
1,533
Likes
2,060
Location
U.K
I think @Willem has talked about owning these and enjoying them.
 

ferrellms

Active Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2019
Messages
296
Likes
254
Well, in my case, I didn't have to get used to the tone of them. Within about 5 minutes I knew I HAD to have some (in the case of the ESL 63). Never immediately loved the sound of a speaker so much almost instantly.
Each to his own! Enjoy.
 

Blumlein 88

Grand Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 23, 2016
Messages
20,523
Likes
37,056
Each to his own! Enjoy.
Don't know your age, but you also might notice this was a long time ago, and few if any box speakers were good in those days. The better speakers today have improved tremendously over the past 40 years. I have no way of knowing how it would strike me or anyone else to hear them today for the first time after listening to the better speakers of today. The main thing about the old box speakers is they had so many resonances that covered up the music. The Harman research has shown how resonances reduce the blind rating of speakers.
 

Axo1989

Major Contributor
Joined
Jan 9, 2022
Messages
2,811
Likes
2,808
Location
Sydney
ESLs were the first speakers I bought for myself (the original style aka 57s in my case, second-hand obviously). Can't actually remember why I wanted them, quite likely they just looked cool and utterly unlike a loudspeaker. Or I read something about the sound?

I liked the sound, really. But I got them before I even knew how to set up proper stereo, much less run measurements, so I was pretty clueless. My dad had JBLs (not L100 sadly, I think L36) which he had previously passed on to me (the rubber surrounds went, I didn't know then you could fix that) so the QUADs sent me down a different sonic path.

I ran them from a nice old Pioneer amp (also hand-me-down from my dad) something in the 20-50 watt range with lots of silver knobs, buttons and levers on the front, and wooden sides. I was in a share house, so the QUADs did their share of arcing. There was a guy who fixed them (they were broken when I bought them, he got them working in the first place) but I couldn't keep up the maintenance as a poor student and sold them eventually.

Toward the end one of my teachers (by then I was doing film/video/sound editing at TAFE) offered me her old QUAD amps, 33/303 think. They also looked cool and unlike normal gear, but they were stolen from the boot of her car before I got my hands on them. That was tragic.

I'd love to have the QUAD gear now and get it restored. Hopefully the ESLs went to a good home.
 
Last edited:

FrantzM

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 12, 2016
Messages
4,337
Likes
7,731
Well ...
We had the ESL57 at home. I was less than 10 years old and ... It was OK. Later in my audiophile life, I had some experience with the ESl63 ... From both I remembered a superb midrange but they both, lacked bass and couldn't play that loud. The ESL57 (that wasn't its name by the way) would arc if pushed too hard and the membrane could then burn ... Polite was the best term to describe them... I moved on to other speakers. I tend to believe they are thoroughly surpassed by todays better offerings. ESL is no longer a solution for speakers in my opinion. They don't offer any advantages.

Peace.
 
OP
MattHooper

MattHooper

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 27, 2019
Messages
7,195
Likes
11,808
Most definitely a danger. In the words of Peter Walker, he said something like, "Big American amps would just light them up (referring to the arcing), destroy them" and he was referring to things like the big McIntosh tube amps.

Find out the gain of your amp (probably 26 db or 20x the input voltage), and measure the preamp so its max signal can never create more than 23 volts RMS out on the amp. Basically find out where the max volume on your preamp needs to be. I'd then back off 6 db and not play them higher than that. You'll probably find that is plenty anyway.

Thank you!

I really have been considering borrowing that pair so I have been well cautioned.

Too bad I just sold my Eico HF-81 - a classic old integrated push-pull tube amp 14Wpc. I infer it would have been suitable.
 

dlaloum

Major Contributor
Joined
Oct 4, 2021
Messages
3,092
Likes
2,353
Never having owned the 57s I've never put any thought in to the ESL 57 arcing issue.

But I do have some access to borrowing the 57s if I want. Would my CJ tube amps at 140W/side pose any particular danger in running the 57s?
In a nutshell... Yes.

Anything beyond 33V (or was it 35V?... ) and they arc.

Having said that, I ran mine with a 405-II for years, and only ever had issues when visitors got their hands on the volume knob :(

I purchased a good nic Quad 303 to mate with the 57's.... when I get a "round tuit"
 

dlaloum

Major Contributor
Joined
Oct 4, 2021
Messages
3,092
Likes
2,353
Well, you asked - these guys are obsolete and pretty colored even when new. Any speaker you have to "get used to" the tone of is poor. And they are expensive and unreliable. Just about anything recommended in these forum will be as good or better on 90% of what you listen to. Forget about capturing that elusive "magic moment" with that special recording from your audiophile youth and go for accuracy above all. Modern speakers (such as active monitors) are so much better top to bottom.
Used them for years - neither on first listening nor subsequently have I ever heard a "tone" I had to get used to.

Their lacks were always clear - no bass or high extension, and limited SPL

Their advantages were just as clear - the best midrange anywhere. Detail, macro and micro tone, imaging it's all there, - even the bass is all there in detail and texture... just not in volume or extension - it is a speaker that does 99% of all the most important things right.

Unfortunately in the search for "best" and that last 1% - we often discard a speaker that is "better" in oh so many ways.
 
OP
MattHooper

MattHooper

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 27, 2019
Messages
7,195
Likes
11,808
In a nutshell... Yes.

Anything beyond 33V (or was it 35V?... ) and they arc.

Having said that, I ran mine with a 405-II for years, and only ever had issues when visitors got their hands on the volume knob :(

I purchased a good nic Quad 303 to mate with the 57's.... when I get a "round tuit"

The idea of the Quads doing any arcing is a bit blood-curdling, since I'd have them sitting on a nice, fluffy shag rug ready to be ignited!
 

dlaloum

Major Contributor
Joined
Oct 4, 2021
Messages
3,092
Likes
2,353
The idea of the Quads doing any arcing is a bit blood-curdling, since I'd have them sitting on a nice, fluffy shag rug ready to be ignited!

Ahh its not quite like that...

If you see the arcing - it looks like a very tiny, subdued static electricity spark.... not like an arc welder - typically only noticed in a darkened room

If you are actually seeing it in a well lit room, you have totally destroyed the driver! (the show won't last long!)

Each time it happens it pokes a hole in the mylar, and the efficiency of the speaker is further reduced....

You then try to get the same volume, by turning the knob up a touch... and the likelihood of another arc is increased..... - vicious loop.
 

Blumlein 88

Grand Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 23, 2016
Messages
20,523
Likes
37,056
In a nutshell... Yes.

Anything beyond 33V (or was it 35V?... ) and they arc.

Having said that, I ran mine with a 405-II for years, and only ever had issues when visitors got their hands on the volume knob :(

I purchased a good nic Quad 303 to mate with the 57's.... when I get a "round tuit"
It was 33 volts peak. Or about 23 volts rms. I thought the 405 came with the option to insert limiting resistors just for this speaker.

And yes, the Eico would have been ideal.
 

ripvw

Active Member
Forum Donor
Joined
May 31, 2018
Messages
281
Likes
450
Location
California's Central Coast
I heard them for the first time in the mid-1970's at legendary LA audio vendor Jonas Miller. They ran them with a Linn turntable, some cartridge I can't remember, the original Mark Levinson preamp and a Bryston 2b. The original 2b was specifically designed for driving the Quad ESL's and was voltage limited to 20 volts, aka 50 wpc at 8 ohms. The speakers were stand mounted so that they were at ear level and pointed directly at the listener - they were over a meter away from the back wall. The sound was amazing - female vocals sounded more real than I had ever heard and it was truly like a window into the recording studio. The Bryston amp drove the speakers perfectly well and could be turned up without danger to the panels. They did not overload and arc but simply sounded compressed, as if the dynamics were squashed down. Amazing...

I gave them $1000 and put the entire system on layaway but I got transferred to Atlanta before I could complete the purchase. I ended up several years later with a pair of used Infinity Servo Static 1's - just the panels, I had to source my own subwoofer. The only other electrostatics I ever owned were Stax headphones.

A tech friend of mine owned a pair of Quad ESL's and used the original speaker stands for the Bose 901's as stands for the Quads. They sounded great raised off the floor this way and were very stable.

bose stands.jpg
 
OP
MattHooper

MattHooper

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 27, 2019
Messages
7,195
Likes
11,808
It was 33 volts peak. Or about 23 volts rms. I thought the 405 came with the option to insert limiting resistors just for this speaker.

And yes, the Eico would have been ideal.

I just realized I could borrow my pal's Eico HF 81.

Maybe it will happen after all!
 
Top Bottom