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WADAX REFERENCE DAC-$160K
- Thread starter Pearljam5000
- Start date
We have a very good tread sadly closed where all ”DAC sound magically different or better when in fact it can’t ” got bunched together.
All the questions in this tread are already answered just exchange ”WADAX” for any other brand name DAC .
Do all DAC sound the same or something I can’t search for it ??
The only uncertainty is how good or bad the wadax is if it’s properly designed it’s sounds exactly the same as any other properly designed DAC. No sound character you hear the source as is , aka transparent, you can’t distinguish this from the next properly designed DAC .
If it have a ”sound” it’s crap and this will show if someone measures it .
For some reasons wadax shows up in show reports and articles but not an end to end test* , there is a lot of technobabble about certain details like power supply noise and feedforward technology and other circumstances. The all important end result is missing .
It all look like the usual ”story of the guru design” fairy tale all high end brands tells you .
But the results are predictable, it’s works or not , there are no nuances to transparent. There are however nuances to failed designs , you can fail differently. Sucess looks the same even if the way towards it was different.
People have demonstrated basic DAC and ADC transparency by looping a track several times trough ADC/DAC and it still sounds the same ( 8 times I think ) .
Thing is , this is not a high bar, demanding all this cost complexity and effort which makes products like this just some kid of conspicuous consumption of Veblen gods ?
*TAS articles are not tests
All the questions in this tread are already answered just exchange ”WADAX” for any other brand name DAC .
Do all DAC sound the same or something I can’t search for it ??
The only uncertainty is how good or bad the wadax is if it’s properly designed it’s sounds exactly the same as any other properly designed DAC. No sound character you hear the source as is , aka transparent, you can’t distinguish this from the next properly designed DAC .
If it have a ”sound” it’s crap and this will show if someone measures it .
For some reasons wadax shows up in show reports and articles but not an end to end test* , there is a lot of technobabble about certain details like power supply noise and feedforward technology and other circumstances. The all important end result is missing .
It all look like the usual ”story of the guru design” fairy tale all high end brands tells you .
But the results are predictable, it’s works or not , there are no nuances to transparent. There are however nuances to failed designs , you can fail differently. Sucess looks the same even if the way towards it was different.
People have demonstrated basic DAC and ADC transparency by looping a track several times trough ADC/DAC and it still sounds the same ( 8 times I think ) .
Thing is , this is not a high bar, demanding all this cost complexity and effort which makes products like this just some kid of conspicuous consumption of Veblen gods ?
*TAS articles are not tests
drewdawg999
Senior Member
Well today's your lucky day. I found sound samples and though it's only mic capture, I believe you can interpolate roughly what is coming out of each DAC.
Here's a capture of the D200 (cued up):
Not the same song, but both simple acoustic music to easily pick out flaws. I know, it's off the air from different mics, not totally equivalent systems but if the Wadax was so much better, surely it would be conveyed through the recordings. What I gather is the Wadax doesn't sound broken and neither does the D200. Both systems sound pretty good to me, listening on IEMs. The main difference is cost, and that will almost always cause some bias to be formed to favor the more expensive one, for sighted listening. Heavy units are likely to have more bass... or so the bias goes, so the Wadax will be bassier since it weighs more than my ported subwoofer (box made of HDF).
I think that's what you're getting at with some of your questions, and you want first hand experience with the Wadax. This is the wrong place for that, as no one here has one nor wants one, ASR is not the target market for such a device. The only way it gets measured is if someone buys one and sends it in to Amir. The company would never ever want such a thing to happen, they have too much to lose, so would never loan one to ASR for review. Be happy with your D200, no need for FOMO because you're not missing a thing.
Keith_W
Master Contributor
I'll put it this way. 120dB SINAD means that if you play signal at 120dB, the noise floor or noise components will be at 0dB. This is akin to complaining that a feather dropping on the floor makes too much noise when a jumbo jet is taking off in front of you. Very inexpensive DAC's can already do that. The Wadax might improve on this a little (let's say a feather dropping on a cushion), but it's also pretty irrelevant.
Or put another way: would you pay extra for Uber Eats to equip their drivers with a fleet of Rolls Royce instead of Toyotas? That inflates the cost of your delivery for no good reason, and the food still tastes the same.
Or put another way: would you pay extra for Uber Eats to equip their drivers with a fleet of Rolls Royce instead of Toyotas? That inflates the cost of your delivery for no good reason, and the food still tastes the same.
JSmith
Master Contributor
This thread makes me feel like wadaxing lyrical... does it include candle holders?
JSmith
JSmith
Do you think I am stupid...?
I understand... but this is just a result of a truncated 128-bit DSP calculation... there appears to be more to the DSP than this, relative to a SDM in a chipset like ROHM, ESS, AKM, TI, Wolfson, Cirrus, etc. and well understood FPGA-centric DAC designs... I'm not saying the price of admission to a WADAX DAC justifies the implementation of a proprietary DSP architecture and D/A strategy.... I was hoping that somebody here had more insight into the nature of the DSP and the D/A architecture.... Price is only relative when money is an object of restriction... I am not the arbiter of how folks should spend discretionary money on a hobby...
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drewdawg999
Senior Member
No, not stupid. But some of these questions... they totally ignore the atmospheric conditions, as you call them. Many members have told you all you need to know about Wadax, MSB, dCS, or any other company with the gall to charge over $100,000 for a DAC. They're using many many Freudian tricks to make you covet a Veblen good. You're not paying for performance when you purchase such an item. You keep mentioning an amalgamation of subjective forces that influence you beyond the measurements. Well when it comes to DACs, the measurements do tell the whole story. Yes, that is the atmosphere here, and it happens to be the correct one. If you want a subjective free for all, you have many choices outside of ASR.
I appreciate the objectively measured insights found here, but it appears few are really contributing at that level... I never asked for subjective input... it is all too prevalent here as the term 'subjective' is contextual and this forum reeks of of subjective opinion and illusion of asymmetrical insight..
Keith_W
Master Contributor
Well since you ask about Hilbert mapping, I have to admit I had to look it up. I am aware of a couple of other Hilberts:
- Hilbert-Huang transform: shifts phase by 90 degrees
- Hilbert-Bode transform: derives phase information from the amplitude response.
- Hilbert envelope: looks at the "trend of decay".
Hilbert mapping converts a 2D space into a 1D space by finding the most efficient path through a grid by preserving "locality". One example is asking a mapping app to find a path to the nearest pizza shop with a fuel stop along the way. How this applies to DAC's ... I have no idea. If Wadax had a white paper explaining their technology, it may be interesting. But otherwise it makes as much sense as Star Trek "set the decombobulators to phase match their harmonic shield frequency and fire!". Tech-sounding gobbledegook that means nothing.
- Hilbert-Huang transform: shifts phase by 90 degrees
- Hilbert-Bode transform: derives phase information from the amplitude response.
- Hilbert envelope: looks at the "trend of decay".
Hilbert mapping converts a 2D space into a 1D space by finding the most efficient path through a grid by preserving "locality". One example is asking a mapping app to find a path to the nearest pizza shop with a fuel stop along the way. How this applies to DAC's ... I have no idea. If Wadax had a white paper explaining their technology, it may be interesting. But otherwise it makes as much sense as Star Trek "set the decombobulators to phase match their harmonic shield frequency and fire!". Tech-sounding gobbledegook that means nothing.
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Complaining about subjective input after repeatedly invoking aesthetic appreciation, auditory context, and missing dimensions of performance is a bit like starting a fire and then criticizing the smoke.
We're running in circles here. Everything seems to have been asked and answered multiple times already. You can keep ignoring this, or frame it into your own twisted reality all you like. We won't bite.
Yes, this one:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ignature-if-they-measure-as-transparent.9245/
@Audicron will find this very same discussion a dozen or so more times, with exactly the same outcome every time.
DavidEdwinAston
Major Contributor
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Very wise, my child!
Bland_username42069
Senior Member
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Wadax Price List - Boyer Audio: Hi-Fi Brand Distributor in the UK
www.boyeraudio.com
42k for the two power cables which presumably stop smearing of micro contrast
I simply can’t imagine having the chutzpah to ask a punter to part with £400k for the streamer and then for good measure to ask for another £42k for the power cables.
Keith
Keith
Nope,
Darth Vader found it too depressive to look at and handed it over to his "Pal" Baron Harkonnen
Don't forget you'll also want to upsell the isolation platform and feet, the grounding boxes (plus vibration isolation for those), and a mains conditioner or regenerator.
You just tell him that the money he's spending on the streamer will be largely wasted if he doesn't have all that extra stuff so that it can 'give of its best.'
DavidEdwinAston
Major Contributor
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This is both, a funny, and depressing thread!
Funny for the obvious, but depressing when thinking that this amount of money is so desperately needed to help so many of the World's population!
Funny for the obvious, but depressing when thinking that this amount of money is so desperately needed to help so many of the World's population!
Oh for the love of all that is good ....just shut up already
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