• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required as is 20 years of participation in forums (not all true). There are daily reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

VTV Hypex NC252MP or VTV Purifi Eigentakt Eval-1? Which is a better fit for me?

drewdawg999

Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2021
Messages
94
Likes
54
Hi there, Merry Christmas! Came into some Christmas money so am about to pull the trigger on one of these amps, but need a little advice first. I know that if cost were no object, the Purifi Eigentakt is an easy decision, but I'd really be stretching the budget to do so. Would I really be able to hear the difference? It would be driving a pair of Vandersteen 2ce Sigs, nearly 20 years old. Tube pre-amp, an old Rogue Metis. Source is mainly a pretty nice turntable, but I have a little DAP for digital, including DSD and hi-res. BTW, the DAP absolutely spanks my old Sony ES CD player.

Some have said there's no audible difference between the amps, some have said there's noticeable increase in transparency and detail with the Purifi. Well, for the big difference in cost, there better be a noticeable difference, but someone said it's definitely diminishing returns. I'm not sure what to do here... I've been eyeing the Purifi Eigentakt as my dream amp, and it's almost within my grasp, but then I see the Hypex 252 for sale here, and could definitely stand to save 700 bucks. Would anyone know if my gear is resolving enough to tell the difference, or is it only doggies that can hear it? I'm currently using IRD MB-100 monoblocks, aka the nOrh Le Amp. They sound pretty nice, but I'm hoping the NC252MP amp would be a huge step up, though I just don't know. I also have a broken Linn LK-140, and a broken Rogue Stereo 88. Can't seem to get in touch with the local repair man though, but can't imagine those nearly vintage amps would measure very well. They sounded nice at the time though.

I was looking at an Aragon 2004 mkII, but the recent measurements here put an end to that. They were supposed to be a good match with my Vandy's, which are on the laid back side of things, but getting into this measurement stuff lately, I now want something with a decent SINAD. Ideally I'd like a mix of the subjective and objective, so if anyone has heard both amps, please chime in. If you've had experience with Class D driving Vandy's, well that would be great too. Is the VTV Hypex 252 amp good enough for my system? I wonder, or should I stretch and go for the Eigentakt? Thanks for any help.
 

tifune

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 18, 2020
Messages
857
Likes
562
If I read this right, you're playing back vinyl and/or maybe a DAP through a tube preamp. Barring a defective unit, there will be no audible difference between NC252 and EVAL-1 at lower volumes. I'm having trouble finding the sensitivity of that exact pair, but newer revisions list 84dB @ 1W which is a bit on the low side. If you like to turn it up a bit and/or you sit far away (maybe 8-10ft), the EVAL-1 is a safer bet.
 

Matias

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 1, 2019
Messages
3,465
Likes
6,497
Location
São Paulo, Brazil
Welcome to ASR and Merry Christmas!

In your case I choose the NCore NC502MP amp as you have tower speakers and more power would not hurt, its sound quality is great, price is not much more expensive than the NC252MP. Assuming you are in the US, personally I would choose the Ghent case built by Buckeye currently 700 usd. But there is a lead time to April 2022...

ncore-se-1.jpg


 
Last edited:
OP
D

drewdawg999

Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2021
Messages
94
Likes
54
If I read this right, you're playing back vinyl and/or maybe a DAP through a tube preamp. Barring a defective unit, there will be no audible difference between NC252 and EVAL-1 at lower volumes. I'm having trouble finding the sensitivity of that exact pair, but newer revisions list 84dB @ 1W which is a bit on the low side. If you like to turn it up a bit and/or you sit far away (maybe 8-10ft), the EVAL-1 is a safer bet.
Yes that's right, but I should hook up my DAC someday, though it's a cheap SMSL Sanskrit 10th mkII (that measures well, currently on headphone duty though). I believe that's the sensitivity of my speakers, but Richard Vandersteen said it's a bit misleading. They're an easy load at 8 ohms, with dips only down to 6 or so. So the 150 WPC should be more than enough. My current old monoblocks are 100 WPC and I rarely have to crank it past half way, and I do like things a little loud, and don't sit too far away, maybe 6ft. Thanks for the input, I need to mull this over some more.
 
OP
D

drewdawg999

Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2021
Messages
94
Likes
54
Welcome to ASR and Merry Christmas!

In you case I choose the NCore NC502MP amp as you have tower speakers and more power would not hurt, its sound quality is great, price is not much more expensive than the NC252MP. Assuming you are in the US, personally I would choose the Ghent case built by Buckeye currently 700 usd. But there is a lead time to April 2022...

ncore-se-1.jpg


Thanks Matias! Well I fancy myself a patient guy but that may be too long to wait for my new Christmas toy. I did consider Buckeye but the long lead time put me off. The VTV NC502MP offering is currently $759, not too bad... Not sure if I need the extra power though, even though I like things a little loud. My neighbors are jerks, they've called the cops on me more than once, and I'm used to 100 WPC. Will think about it...
 

jeffbook

Active Member
Joined
May 21, 2019
Messages
111
Likes
143
Location
Columbus, Ohio
I hate to be a Scrooge on Christmas day, but with the inherent distortion and noise levels, vinyl playback and a tube preamp will be the limiting factors on playback quality, not either one of these two power amps. Selection of the 502 over the 252 could be a good idea with relatively inefficient speakers. Bah humbug, but in the end, Merry Christmas! :)
 
OP
D

drewdawg999

Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2021
Messages
94
Likes
54
I hate to be a Scrooge on Christmas day, but with the inherent distortion and noise levels, vinyl playback and a tube preamp will be the limiting factors on playback quality, not either one of these two power amps. Selection of the 502 over the 252 could be a good idea with relatively inefficient speakers. Bah humbug, but in the end, Merry Christmas! :)
Merry Christmas Mr. Scrooge! Well I do have my DAP that I like to play DSD on, and it sounds very good indeed, about on par with my cheap DAC. And my pre is pretty fast and clean. Pretty new to the objectivist thing here so I need to balance out somehow. But give up my beloved vinyl? No, that won't happen, I listen to it all. (Though I think CDs sound kind of yucky and meh.) Will consider the 502, thanks.
 

Walter

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Aug 25, 2020
Messages
821
Likes
1,117
You are using a tube pre-amp. I reeeeeeeally don't think you'll be able to tell the difference between either of these. I'd go with the NC252MP or NC502MP, or even the Aragon, for that matter.
 
OP
D

drewdawg999

Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2021
Messages
94
Likes
54
Why would you think that?
Well I was thinking amp technology has progressed in 20 years, and that Bruno is on to something good. The MB-100's are supposed to be only okay, entry level. I understand that the NC252MP is entry level as well, but hopefully it's in some kind of sweet spot for me, some kind of audio bargain. Do you have experience with the MB-100's and they sound good to you? I have no idea how it measures, but I doubt it measures as well as the NC252MP.
 

jhaider

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jun 5, 2016
Messages
2,049
Likes
3,031
Well I was thinking amp technology has progressed in 20 years, and that Bruno is on to something good.

Both of those statements are objectively true. The better question is, are they audibly relevant?


Do you have experience with the MB-100's and they sound good to you?

I’ve never heard of the amp until your post. I looked it up and nothing screams tweako nonsense. Amps rarely make a material difference in sound quality unless there’s a fairly instantly obvious issue, you run out of power, or they go bad. So unless your current one is acting up I think you’d be better served by better speakers. If you must buy an electronics box, consider a room correction such as one of miniDSP’s boxes with Dirac Live.

Nothing against NC252MP. I have one, as well as a pair of SMPS600+NC400 monoblocks, to drive an active biamped speaker. They’re fine.
 
Last edited:

Digital_Thor

Active Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2018
Messages
208
Likes
141
Location
Denmark
How would you Bi-amp with PA5?
Maybe I was not clear - sorry for that. But, by "set of amplifiers" I implied "two" of them - 2 x stereo. Maybe I should have expressed it more clearly too - that bi-amping was for extra headroom, since the OP sometimes liked to play a little louder. He also pointed out that he never really went much further than halfway with the volume, which indicates that the lower gain of the PA5 does not pose a challenge in his config.
 

AdamG247

Strive to be Understood, rather than heard!
Moderator
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 3, 2021
Messages
2,777
Likes
6,993
Hi there, Merry Christmas! Came into some Christmas money so am about to pull the trigger on one of these amps, but need a little advice first. I know that if cost were no object, the Purifi Eigentakt is an easy decision, but I'd really be stretching the budget to do so. Would I really be able to hear the difference? It would be driving a pair of Vandersteen 2ce Sigs, nearly 20 years old. Tube pre-amp, an old Rogue Metis. Source is mainly a pretty nice turntable, but I have a little DAP for digital, including DSD and hi-res. BTW, the DAP absolutely spanks my old Sony ES CD player.

Some have said there's no audible difference between the amps, some have said there's noticeable increase in transparency and detail with the Purifi. Well, for the big difference in cost, there better be a noticeable difference, but someone said it's definitely diminishing returns. I'm not sure what to do here... I've been eyeing the Purifi Eigentakt as my dream amp, and it's almost within my grasp, but then I see the Hypex 252 for sale here, and could definitely stand to save 700 bucks. Would anyone know if my gear is resolving enough to tell the difference, or is it only doggies that can hear it? I'm currently using IRD MB-100 monoblocks, aka the nOrh Le Amp. They sound pretty nice, but I'm hoping the NC252MP amp would be a huge step up, though I just don't know. I also have a broken Linn LK-140, and a broken Rogue Stereo 88. Can't seem to get in touch with the local repair man though, but can't imagine those nearly vintage amps would measure very well. They sounded nice at the time though.

I was looking at an Aragon 2004 mkII, but the recent measurements here put an end to that. They were supposed to be a good match with my Vandy's, which are on the laid back side of things, but getting into this measurement stuff lately, I now want something with a decent SINAD. Ideally I'd like a mix of the subjective and objective, so if anyone has heard both amps, please chime in. If you've had experience with Class D driving Vandy's, well that would be great too. Is the VTV Hypex 252 amp good enough for my system? I wonder, or should I stretch and go for the Eigentakt? Thanks for any help.
Here is some good reading and a Power calculator to help you get a better feel for how much power you may need. The answer is complicated but not so much that you can’t figure it out. As @Matias is hinting at in his above post, the 502 will give you better power margins for handling dynamic peaks.


Here is another pretty informative thread worth reading:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ount-of-power-needed-for-dynamic-peaks.15278/

A great Video of actual power deliver in real-time. (see post 3):
 
Last edited:

Walter

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Aug 25, 2020
Messages
821
Likes
1,117
Both of those statements are objectively true. The better question is, are they audibly relevant?

I’ve never heard of the amp until your post. I looked it up and nothing screams tweako nonsense. Amps rarely make a material difference in sound quality unless there’s a fairly instantly obvious issue, you run out of power, or they go bad. So unless your current one is acting up I think you’d be better served by better speakers. If you must buy an electronics box, consider a room correction such as one of miniDSP’s boxes with Dirac Live.
You obviously read the original post more carefully than I did. I do remember reading about this amp very favorably many years ago. They had a good reputation. I don't think the NC252MP would provide any audible benefit if the OP's amps are still working well. I second these recommendations.
 
OP
D

drewdawg999

Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2021
Messages
94
Likes
54
Here is some good reading and a Power calculator to help you get a better feel for how much power you may need. The answer is complicated but not so much that you can’t figure it out. As @Matias is hinting at in his above post, the 502 will give you better power margins for handling dynamic peaks.


Here is another pretty informative thread worth reading:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ount-of-power-needed-for-dynamic-peaks.15278/

A great Video of actual power deliver in real-time. (see post 3):
Thanks so much for this! The Harbeth video was eye opening. For the calculator I put a desired SPL of 90 dB (which I guess is pretty loud) and headroom of 15 dB (for Rickie Lee Jones) and it spit out like 500 watts! That's a lot of power required to rock out the way I want to. So yes, the 502 is now definitely under consideration. (The 252 on here sold BTW, so there goes my bargain, but I guess I need more power anyways.)
 
OP
D

drewdawg999

Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2021
Messages
94
Likes
54
Both of those statements are objectively true. The better question is, are they audibly relevant?




I’ve never heard of the amp until your post. I looked it up and nothing screams tweako nonsense. Amps rarely make a material difference in sound quality unless there’s a fairly instantly obvious issue, you run out of power, or they go bad. So unless your current one is acting up I think you’d be better served by better speakers. If you must buy an electronics box, consider a room correction such as one of miniDSP’s boxes with Dirac Live.

Nothing against NC252MP. I have one, as well as a pair of SMPS600+NC400 monoblocks, to drive an active biamped speaker. They’re fine.
Thanks for the recommendation, but I'm pretty much married to the speakers at this point. Don't have the dough for a significant upgrade, which I don't even know what that would be. I yearn for Wilsons or Magicos, but it's just not feasible now, or possibly ever. So maybe I should just save my money? Or go for the 502, as it seems like I could use the power. But my monoblocks are performing well, they're overbuilt with large power supplies, so I guess they function differently from Hypex amps, which don't have headroom. Don't know much about room correction at all.
 

tifune

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 18, 2020
Messages
857
Likes
562
Don't know much about room correction at all.

Assuming your existing amp is still in good operating condition and meets your power requirements (reasonably clean peaks at typical listening distance), this will be a far bigger upgrade than almost any amp. It's also a lot more work, but potentially a lot less $.
 

jhaider

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jun 5, 2016
Messages
2,049
Likes
3,031
Thanks for the recommendation, but I'm pretty much married to the speakers at this point. Don't have the dough for a significant upgrade, which I don't even know what that would be.

If you’re not satisfied with the sound quality you’re getting, the speakers or their placement is the reason. Changing the amp is unlikely to do anything except for cost money and opportunity cost of time spent swapping boxes.

So maybe I should just save my money?

Probably. Or invest the time in learning about things that actually matter (speakers, electronically taming room modes with good room correction) and then if you want to spend money you’ll be intellectually better equipped to direct it in a way that maximizes the benefit of the expenditure.
 
OP
D

drewdawg999

Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2021
Messages
94
Likes
54
So I caved and bought an amp, deal was too good to pass up, so I wound up with a March Audio P502. March Audio has much better build quality than VTV and I made a reasonable offer on Audiogon that got accepted. First impressions are that there's a noticeable difference from my old monoblocks. More detail and clarity, from top to bottom. Increased resolution, and I've never heard my speaker's bass so punchy before. Really digging the extra power in my system. I'm a happy customer.

But I spent most of the day driving my Magnepan MMG's, listening to my DAP. With the increased resolution, I preferred the higher detail of my DAP over my analogue rigs. Better bass too. DSD sounded spectacular, but so did redbook, and mp3, and everything else I played on my DAP, a Surfans F20. Not particularly thrilled about that, not really sure what to think as I love my analogue setup. Being easily bettered by such a cheap DAP was quite surprising today. My MMG's have never sounded so good, they were definitely underpowered before. I can't believe I'm getting good resolution out of these speakers as they have been easily congested in the past. Speed of percussion instruments definitely increased, as did bass definition. Now properly driven, my little Maggies are not embarrassed by the Vandersteens at all. Really fun to listen to. Had a good day.
 
Top Bottom