Vivid Audio Moya M1-World's first 8-woofer force -canceling speaker

[MattHooper]

I’d love to hear the Moya speakers, but I really can’t get past the brutal looks.,
All bulk and zero grace.

 

[Karmacoma]

Those would fit well with a Hummer on the side

 

[EJ3]

Those would fit well with a Hummer on the side

2 HUMMER's (you may need to reposition each speaker or something).

 

[MattHooper]

Those would fit well with a Hummer on the side

I originally read that as “ hammer” and thought “ yeah put a handle on them and they would look like Thor’s hammer!”

 

[Anton S]

There's an exception to every rule, but I think it's folly to assume that many houses, if any at all, in which a pair of $500K speakers will find a home may be "outwardly understated." In general, individuals given to extravagant purchases in one area are prone to dumping large sums in all areas. Wealth-signaling is analogous to virtue-signaling in such circles.

And, although it is entirely possible that an extremely well-heeled audio buff who has heard a pair of Moya M1's somewhere (perhaps during a quick jaunt over to the factory in his Gulfstream G500 or Dassault Falcon 8 for an audition) might buy a pair based on his opinion that they are the finest sounding speakers ever built, but that will likely also be a rare exception and not the rule. (See wealth-signaling above.)

No, the vast majority of people who splurge for such extravagant audio trinkets are the same ones who own palatial homes (usually several on some mix of at least three continents and islands) and fill the garages of said homes with various uber-expensive automotive bobbles. And let's not even talk about the mega-yachts, yet another form of wealth-signaling. They rely on these signals to be recognized by and to impress other members of their circle.

Think for a moment about just how rich an individual able to drop half a million bucks on a pair of speakers (or car or watch, etc) generally is. A few million $ of liquidity isn’t even entry level. I have personally heard more than one complain with a straight face that "a million just doesn't go very far anymore," all the while completely oblivious to the fact that their extravagances are the driving force behind the very stratospheric prices they lament.

It is doubtful that anyone beyond other absurdly wealthy friends and relatives within that circle will ever have any sort of meaningful contact with them, let alone be invited into their homes, but none lives in a social vacuum, so they all feel compelled to continue the wealth-signaling inside for those occasions when they throw a soiree at one of their “humble” abodes.

 

[MattHooper]

And, although it is entirely possible that an extremely well-heeled audio buff who has heard a pair of Moya M1's somewhere (perhaps during a quick jaunt over to the factory in his Gulfstream G500 or Dassault Falcon 8 for an audition) might buy a pair based on his opinion that they are the finest sounding speakers ever built, but that will likely also be a rare exception and not the rule. (See wealth-signaling above.)

I disagree. A few people are into audio. I think generally speaking it tends to arise from an individual passion, as it’s not something valued by most people. Even if you say it’s bought to impress audiophile peers, that would only make sense to an audiophile in the first place who would mingle and such circles. So that already assumes some level of passion for the equipment and sound

The few audiophiles I’ve been acquainted with who are extremely wealthy and have extremely expensive systems bought their systems because of their audiophile tendencies and enthusiasm. They were just like me, but more wealthy.

I do know that there are stories of Rich audiophiles (and for whatever reason I keep hearing about these audiophiles being from Asian countries), who walked into a high-end audio store and say something like “ give me your most expensive loudspeakers.”

Even there, I’m not not sure exactly what is going on. Because most rich people don’t indulge an expensive loudspeakers because it’s just not something they care about.
It’s hard to imagine somebody caring to buy really expensive loudspeakers if they were no more interested in that type of thing than all the other rich people who don’t bother with high end audio.

 

[Axo1989]

There's an exception to every rule, but I think it's folly to assume that many houses, if any at all, in which a pair of $500K speakers will find a home may be "outwardly understated." ...

Ever met (or been a guest in the home of) a wealthy Japanese audiophile?

I think you should take Matt's argument as a legitimate perspective at least, and temper your enthusiastic embrace of (and derision for) nouveau-riche stereotypes.

 

[PierreV]

I know at least one person who has "invested" 30% of his net worth in his hobby. Never underestimate the dedication of a single, childless, middle aged man with a passion.

 

[Reddoc]

wealth-signaling

Whilst I disagree with your argument, at least this bit is really good.
If they didn't spend their money, others would not benefit, so I guess the more "the rich" (the most relative term in the universe, velocity be damned) spend, the more others benefit from their wealth.

 

[Anton S]

I've read the anecdotal reports of dedicated audio buffs overspending on their passion. Yes, that happens, but it isn't widespread. Those are the exceptions that I mentioned above. The people of whom I'm speaking when I talk about wealth-signaling don't give a rip about fidelity or quality or anything other than besting their friends' expenditures in each category, whatever it is. It's all about "My [fill in the blank] is bigger/newer/more expensive than yours.

No one fancies cow manure, but I'd give odds that that if you price a bag of the stuff high enough, you'll rake in enough profit from that crowd to retire, just so the buyers can brag to their friends about how much they paid. (Have a look at the stellar prices for some of the nonsensical crap called out in the "Extreme Snake Oil" thread in this forum.)

I catered to several of those people when I was in the business, and I assure you it's so. I don't care to remember how many times I had clients phone me to order the newest latest and greatest without ever having heard the thing. They really didn't care what it sounded like, only that it was the latest and most expensive. Of course, that was back when $100K was an astronomical price for a pair of speakers.

Those are the people who comprise the vast majority of the filthy rich. But I don't begrudge them their follies. If anything, I feel sorry for their continual fruitless search for happiness and fulfillment in external things. Most of them completely detest life and each other.

 

[MattHooper]

I catered to several of those people when I was in the business, and I assure you it's so. I don't care to remember how many times I had clients phone me to order the newest latest and greatest without ever having heard the thing.

If you are talking about clients who wanted the latest greatest audio equipment, that to me suggest some enthusiasm for audio equipment. After all, why would they requested if they didn’t have some interest interest in the first place?

As I said, high end audio isn’t typically the go to for conspicuous wealth. Most people just don’t care. That’s why it’s a niche hobby.

We aren’t in what I call a wealthy bracket, but we did manage to get our sons into some private schools and boy. Were there a lot of wealthy families there! We ended up visiting so many extremely wealthy family homes, and I was regularly amazed to see how little interest there was in good audio, and those homes. A smart speaker here in the kitchen, Some teeny sat speakers hidden away somewhere else, in ceiling or in wall and not gray quality. But only once did I ever run across a wealthy guy with an interest in high and audio (the other wealthy high and audio guys I knew from Contacts through my other audiophile acquaintances).

So again my point is, It does not make sense to me that a significant portion of wealthy people who choose to buy really expensive “ high end audio” are doing so simply for conspicuous consumption and show off reasons. if they are calling a dealer to ask for high end audio gear interest an audio gear to begin with. And if they have friends to show the gear off to who would actually appreciate that gear, that they our audiophiles in some audiophile community.

I’m certainly not saying it never happens that a rich person with no or a little interest in audio buys a super expensive Soundsystem to show off. But I do think it’s got to be a very low proportion and thus that appeals to “ showing off and conspicuous consumption” as motivators shouldn’t be the default assumption.

 

[pderousse]

finally speakers worthy of my laundry room

 

[EJ3]

Ever met (or been a guest in the home of) a wealthy Japanese audiophile?

I think you should take Matt's argument as a legitimate perspective at least, and temper your enthusiastic embrace of (and derision for) nouveau-riche stereotypes.

Yes, also in Hong Kong, Republic of Korea, China, Thailand & Australia.

And FULLY AGREE!

 

[Anton S]

If you are talking about clients who wanted the latest greatest audio equipment, that to me suggest some enthusiasm for audio equipment. After all, why would they requested if they didn’t have some interest interest in the first place?

Of course, there was interest. After all, they came to me.

As I said, high end audio isn’t typically the go to for conspicuous wealth. Most people just don’t care. That’s why it’s a niche hobby.

Yes, it's a niche hobby. So are fine watches. (Although most would say that Carlos Ghosn is fairly well heeled, he wears a Casio digital that you can buy just about anywhere for fifty bucks.) That doesn't imply that those with interests in either hobby don't use their interests for wealth-signaling within their circle.

We aren’t in what I call a wealthy bracket, but we did manage to get our sons into some private schools and boy. Were there a lot of wealthy families there! We ended up visiting so many extremely wealthy family homes, and I was regularly amazed to see how little interest there was in good audio, and those homes. A smart speaker here in the kitchen, Some teeny sat speakers hidden away somewhere else, in ceiling or in wall and not gray quality. But only once did I ever run across a wealthy guy with an interest in high and audio (the other wealthy high and audio guys I knew from Contacts through my other audiophile acquaintances).

See niche hobby above.

So again my point is, It does not make sense to me that a significant portion of wealthy people who choose to buy really expensive “ high end audio” are doing so simply for conspicuous consumption and show off reasons. if they are calling a dealer to ask for high end audio gear interest an audio gear to begin with. And if they have friends to show the gear off to who would actually appreciate that gear, that they our audiophiles in some audiophile community.

Significant portion of wealthy people, no. However, within the circle who who do, the price and visual impact are their paramount selection criteria, not sound.

I’m certainly not saying it never happens that a rich person with no or a little interest in audio buys a super expensive Soundsystem to show off. But I do think it’s got to be a very low proportion and thus that appeals to “ showing off and conspicuous consumption” as motivators shouldn’t be the default assumption.

Those without an interest in audio can and do buy expensive audio equipment after visiting the homes of friends who do and being exposed to their systems. It's ingrained in their acquisitive natures. Others with no interest in sailing sometimes buy mega-yachts for the same reason. They suddenly realize that there's another wealth badge that they must have, so there can be no doubt about their membership in the wealth club.

 

[Anton S]

Ever met (or been a guest in the home of) a wealthy Japanese audiophile?

I think you should take Matt's argument as a legitimate perspective at least, and temper your enthusiastic embrace of (and derision for) nouveau-riche stereotypes.

Japanese, no. Chinese, yes.

With all due respect to Matt's "argument, my position is based on experience, not conjecture.

 

[PierreV]

But I don't begrudge them their follies. If anything, I feel sorry for their continual fruitless search for happiness and fulfillment in external things. Most of them completely detest life and each other.

With all due respect to Matt's "argument, my position is based on experience, not conjecture.

You seem to have a fundamental problem with wealthy people. Could it bias your perception?

You mentioned past professional contacts - that could also be a source of bias: if you worked in exotic cars, you'll definitely encounter a certain wealthy type, if you worked in catering, your sample will be biased by wealthy people who like parties and events, if you worked in landscaping... etc. In reality, while social studies seem to have shown high net worth entrepreneur types to share a certain number of common character traits, the typical human diversity shows up in that group as well.

FWIW, Matt's argument seems to be based on experience as much as yours is.

Most of the wealthy people I know are more into non-wealth signaling than in wealth-signaling. But, granted, I live in Europe where the social norms are a bit different.

 

[MattHooper]

Most of the wealthy people I know are more into non-wealth signaling than in wealth-signaling. But, granted, I live in Europe where the social norms are a bit different.

Same here. I’m in Canada.

 

[Anton S]

You seem to have a fundamental problem with wealthy people. Could it bias your perception?

The bias is real, but based on exposure.

You mentioned past professional contacts - that could also be a source of bias: if you worked in exotic cars, you'll definitely encounter a certain wealthy type, if you worked in catering, your sample will be biased by wealthy people who like parties and events, if you worked in landscaping... etc. In reality, while social studies seem to have shown high net worth entrepreneur types to share a certain number of common character traits, the typical human diversity shows up in that group as well.

Your point?

FWIW, Matt's argument seems to be based on experience as much as yours is.

Didn't say his wasn't, only that mine was, because there's now some conjecture about this flying around.

Most of the wealthy people I know are more into non-wealth signaling than in wealth-signaling. But, granted, I live in Europe where the social norms are a bit different.

I've read that being less ostentatious about one's wealth is a developing trend, and I've been out of the game for some time, so that could be the case here in the States, as well.

If it catches on, look for fire sales on luxury goods.

 

[PierreV]

Your point?

Quite simply that you can't generalize.

 

[Anton S]

Quite simply that you can't generalize.

Fair enough. Consider my comments confined to the sample set I had to work with.