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Virtual Oscilloscope vs Digital Oscilloscope

mansr

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#41
With my Tektronix scope, I can connect to it using ethernet and and web browser. It will then completely mirror what is on the screen of the scope so that kind of cut and paste is a lot better than using USB thumb drives.
Mine (MDO3000 series) does that too. Even more convenient, IMO, is its ability to save a screenshot to a network drive with a single push of a button.

I have very few complaints about this scope, but I suspect it's somewhat outside the OP's budget. In the sub-$1k range, Rigol seem to offer good value, though my experience with them is limited.

Displayless scopes such as Picoscope can be every bit as good electrically as a traditional model with screen and knobs. My worry is that the software will suddenly break with some OS update, rendering the device useless.
 

trl

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#42
Forgot to say that with PicoScope I have a buffer of 30 frames or something and if I can go back to see how signal looks like. This is helpful if I see a spike every few seconds and I can't PrintScreen in exactly the same instant. I assume most digital stand-alone scopes are having a similar function builtin these days.
 

restorer-john

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#43
...I assume most digital stand-alone scopes are having a similar function builtin these days...
My DSO came bundled with a bonus French Maid trained to push my capture button whenever I need it. (I wish)

hot helper.JPG
 

Thomas savage

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#44
My DSO came bundled with a bonus French Maid trained to push my capture button whenever I need it. (I wish)

View attachment 17645
Not been following this thread, don’t really have need or required knowledge for a O’sillyScope but I approve of this and find myself more interested .

She’s not French but I feel further much more thorough investigation is warranted to make double sure. I know a way to reveal her native language.
 

DonH56

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#46
Most modern DSOs have a wide range of trigger capabilities to catch capture glitches like runt pulses, pulses outside or inside a timing (width) or voltage window, etc. You can trigger on different edges, or the nth edge in a row, etc. Additional packages allow you to do things like trigger on particular sequences like USB, PCIe, SAS/SATA, etc. characters. Ours allow you to draw a box around a section of a captured waveform and use it for a (visual) trigger, great for triggering on a certain sequence of waveshapes. They are pretty amazing beasts.
 
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#48
@amirm To sum up with a Rigol 1054z or a siglent sds1104x-e will I be able to potentially make the measurements like you do in your reviews ?
Well just potentially ofc. I'm a noob looking for an oscilloscope to measure hifi audio.
 

DonH56

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#49
An oscilloscope does not have the resolution to perform high-dynamic range audio analysis. Most high-speed DSOs use 8-bit converters with about 6 ENOB; some reach 12 bits and even 14 bits at lower rates (and some 16 bits or more, usually the USB variety). @amirm uses a dedicated Audio Precision audio tester that is probably pushing $30k fully loaded. If you just want to look at signals and such the Rigol is a great choice. If you want to perform 20+-bit linearity testing, not so much. If you want to make distortion measurements, albeit with not as dynamic range as Amir's toy, then REW is free SW that will allow you to do that.

Unless @Thomas savage has cornered the market, the French Maid is an additional-cost extra.
 
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trl

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#51
@amirm To sum up with a Rigol 1054z or a siglent sds1104x-e will I be able to potentially make the measurements like you do in your reviews ?
Well just potentially ofc. I'm a noob looking for an oscilloscope to measure hifi audio.
There's a 1000 USD 16-bit PicoScope presented by [email protected] here: https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...analysis-systems-technical-measurements.4465/. There are also other measurement tool in there as well.

Regarding the audio measurement usage, I personally find a scope perfect for:
- finding phase delay for both sine and square waves
- comparing input vs. output sines and squares (especially with dual scopes)
- accurately measuring voltage output of amplifiers
- finding max. usable volume (begging of clipping volume)
- accurately measuring output DC-voltage
- searching for ultrasonics
- accurately measuring channel imbalance (especially with dual scopes)
- measuring AC RMS ripple and noise of internal power supplies/regulators
 
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#52
@ trl Very interesting and thanks for pointing things out. I' ll keep note of what you say and try to learn something.
Sadly my budget atm won't allow me to enter professional audio measurement world considering is just for fun.
And considering that is 16bit vertical resolution what will happen with 24bit audio ? Is it necessary a 24bit oscilloscope with 24bit audio ?
For now I save my money to udnerstand better what I'll be going to do.
I'll stay with my grandfather philips PM6232 oscilloscope and learn everything I can with that one.
So that I'll be able to chose better next time and maybe get near to audio measurements.

Update: on the link you post i just saw the qa401. Will I have fun if I buy a siglent and qa401 for audio testing ? Or i'm going to miss something ? Seems an interesting object and "is offering ASIO "unofficial" support. That opens the door to ARTA and REW." as a guy posted there ? It make sense ?
 
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trl

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#55
@ trl Very interesting and thanks for pointing things out. I' ll keep note of what you say and try to learn something.
Sadly my budget atm won't allow me to enter professional audio measurement world considering is just for fun.
And considering that is 16bit vertical resolution what will happen with 24bit audio ? Is it necessary a 24bit oscilloscope with 24bit audio ?
For now I save my money to udnerstand better what I'll be going to do.
I'll stay with my grandfather philips PM6232 oscilloscope and learn everything I can with that one.
So that I'll be able to chose better next time and maybe get near to audio measurements.

Update: on the link you post i just saw the qa401. Will I have fun if I buy a siglent and qa401 for audio testing ? Or i'm going to miss something ? Seems an interesting object and "is offering ASIO "unofficial" support. That opens the door to ARTA and REW." as a guy posted there ? It make sense ?
QA401 is dedicated for audio measurements. also, check https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/audio-measurement-gear.113/ and https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ng-rme-adi-2-pro-with-quantasylum-qa401.6877/ and https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/measuring-dacs.5107/
 

watchnerd

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#56
Ah yes, we don't keep anything in the shed. :)

As to your question, you want a Rigol digital scope. It is much, much easier to use with buttons and such rather than messing with keyboard and mouse. And performance is far, far better than the pocket one. Picoscopes are OK but still not easy to use for everyday work.

The 4 channel Rigol Scope is the standard for hobbyists and very reasonably priced: https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B012938...e-us000-pcomp-feature-scomp-wm-5&ref=aa_scomp



There should be tons and tons of videos and reviews on it.

If you want to spend a lot more money, then there are other options but really, for 99% of work the above is just dandy for just $375.
Reviving this because my recent SUT experiments have educated me on the limits of what can and can't be done easily via analog-digital conversion.

If I want to zap square or sine ways through my SUT or RTR, does the Rigol include a signal generator, or do I need a separate piece of gear to do that?
 

trl

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#57
"DS1000Z built-in signal source can output a variety of basic waveforms, including sine, square, ramp, pulse, DC and noise" - source: http://beyondmeasure.rigoltech.com/...050a/1/-/-/-/-/MSO1000Z&DS1000Z_UserGuide.pdf

You will not be able to do a proper FFT with such a scope, mostly because of a less than 16-bit internal resolution, but also because the signal generator's THD+N is usually higher than DUT's native THD+N.

I personally find a scope very useful to see if there's frequency roll-off or if there's post-ringing or pre-ringing, especially with speakers/headphones connected.
 

watchnerd

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#58
"DS1000Z built-in signal source can output a variety of basic waveforms, including sine, square, ramp, pulse, DC and noise" - source: http://beyondmeasure.rigoltech.com/acton/attachment/1579/f-050a/1/-/-/-/-/MSO1000Z&DS1000Z_UserGuide.pdf

You will not be able to do a proper FFT with such a scope, mostly because of a less than 16-bit internal resolution, but also because the signal generator's THD+N is usually higher than DUT's native THD+N.

I personally find a scope very useful to see if there's frequency roll-off or if there's post-ringing or pre-ringing, especially with speakers/headphones connected.
I would be using it for analog purposes (vinyl, RTR).

How much does the bit limit matter that case?
 

Blumlein 88

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#59
I would be using it for analog purposes (vinyl, RTR).

How much does the bit limit matter that case?
I'm of course aware of some of what you've been doing. I will ask more specifically, how would you use the O-scope to tell you something you can't find out with software and an ADC? Or what functions would an o-scope give that software and an ADC can't?
 

SIY

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#60
I'm of course aware of some of what you've been doing. I will ask more specifically, how would you use the O-scope to tell you something you can't find out with software and an ADC? Or what functions would an o-scope give that software and an ADC can't?
Bandwidth.
 
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