Vinyl will always sound *different* than digital, right?

[Jim Shaw]

...

The problem with a CD is that you CAN successfully convey a wretchedly compressed, clipped to death, insanely wide power spectrum on a CD, it has no more or less effect on the CD than a natural recording. You simply could not EVER put that on an LP, because it's so much less reliable, has so much lower power bandwidth, etc. This is why, I am pretty sure, some people like LP these days, because you can't squeeze the last bit out of the signal to make it TOO DAMN LOUD!

Yes, well there's all that and bunches more words, motives, prejudices, perceptions, etc. But when the pushing and shoving and preaching have died down, the laws of physics remain as overlords of our senses. Some of us may, for example, prefer train travel, others jets, and still others books. [Full stop]

 

[j_j]

Yes, well there's all that and bunches more words, motives, prejudices, perceptions, etc. But when the pushing and shoving and preaching have died down, the laws of physics remain as overlords of our senses. Some of us may, for example, prefer train travel, others jets, and still others books. [Full stop]

Just remember stereo perception has no "high truth" anywhere in 2 channels, and we'll be fine. People get the right to an opinion, until they start explaining it in something beyond preference.

 

[FrankW]

Just remember stereo perception has no "high truth" anywhere in 2 channels, and we'll be fine. People get the right to an opinion, until they start explaining it in something beyond preference.

"Accurate" sound in the beholders mind, maybe some buyers
Maybe I just need a new DAC with dsp...

 

[j_j]

"Accurate" sound in the beholders mind, maybe some buyers
Maybe I just need a new DAC with dsp...

Just ask them "accurate to what" and stand back.

 

[Soandso]

Somewhat oddly I seem to prefer hearing vinyl records playing (more than digital music) when I am in another room performing household activities, like in the kitchen or tidying the bathroom. Maybe it's the relaxing separation from 2 channel illusionary stereo perception others here describe. Of course it could just be psychological evocation of younger years' get togethers with the record player stuck in one room!

 

[MattHooper]

Just ask them "accurate to what" and stand back.

Indeed, especially seeking accuracy on the justification: "I want to to get closest to the artists intent."

More and more artists these days are extolling vinyl as they release on that format, so some in the digital-only crowd might come closer to the artists intent by buying a turntable for some music.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/vinyl-record-revival-tachichi-ja-mila-renegade-1.6788116

Halifax reggae singer Jah'Mila did a small run of vinyl of her debut album Roots Girl.

"Somehow the music sounds richer," she said. "There is something very nostalgic for me about the sound."
.......

"Like Tachichi, who appeared on her album, her music is also available through streaming platforms but having it on vinyl means a lot more to her.

"That is how I want to be remembered," she said. "Not an old CD that is in the junk somewhere but when people listen to it they put it back very carefully in the package."

 

[Sal1950]

"Like Tachichi, who appeared on her album, her music is also available through streaming platforms but having it on vinyl means a lot more to her.

Yea, more money. LOL

 

[j_j]

Yea, more money. LOL

If the ARTIST got more money, I might like that idea.

But I don't think ARTISTS ever get any money from recorded music these days, that's how it seems to work.

 

[Sal1950]

But I don't think ARTISTS ever get any money from recorded music these days, that's how it seems to work.

That's not how I understand it.
But I wouldn't bet the farm on it either way.

 

[j_j]

That's not how I understand it.
But I wouldn't bet the farm on it either way.

For the artist, the economics of making a recording suck. The royalties are minescule, advances are paltry. The only "money" is in live performance, and then only if you can get a decently filled venue that probably belongs to a particular, very monopolistic company who will happily bar you worldwide from radio, venues, and other stuff if you dare to play in a non-company venue.

It's pretty much disastrous right now.

 

[Sal1950]

For the artist, the economics of making a recording suck. The royalties are minescule, advances are paltry. The only "money" is in live performance, and then only if you can get a decently filled venue that probably belongs to a particular, very monopolistic company who will happily bar you worldwide from radio, venues, and other stuff if you dare to play in a non-company venue.

It's pretty much disastrous right now.

I'm not terribly sympathetic to be honest.
I've worn a number of different hats during my working years.
In those days, every single job I had required me to be on site, performing my skills for 8-12 hours a day, 5-6 days a week, at least 48 weeks a year.
Yes it's hard to "make it" in the music business, but it wasn't easy for me at any of the various tasks I chose. I had to work my ass off to be even slightly financially successful. Those who do "make it" in music are financially rewarded beyond my wildest dreams, but you first have to have the talent and secondly put forth the required effort, what ever that means.

 

[SuicideSquid]

Indeed, especially seeking accuracy on the justification: "I want to to get closest to the artists intent."

More and more artists these days are extolling vinyl as they release on that format, so some in the digital-only crowd might come closer to the artists intent by buying a turntable for some music.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/vinyl-record-revival-tachichi-ja-mila-renegade-1.6788116

Halifax reggae singer Jah'Mila did a small run of vinyl of her debut album Roots Girl.

"Somehow the music sounds richer," she said. "There is something very nostalgic for me about the sound."
.......

"Like Tachichi, who appeared on her album, her music is also available through streaming platforms but having it on vinyl means a lot more to her.

"That is how I want to be remembered," she said. "Not an old CD that is in the junk somewhere but when people listen to it they put it back very carefully in the package."

The intent of the artist is to sell physical copies and make $10-$20 instead of earning a fraction of a pittance for streaming.

If cassette tapes were the physical format du jour artists would be extolling the virtues of the cassette tape.

Not to be cynical or blame artists for this state of affairs - they've been forced into this position by having to compete with file sharing/stealing sites and streaming services that pay next to nothing for the past 20 years.

 

[SuicideSquid]

I'm not terribly sympathetic to be honest.
I've worn a number of different hats during my working years.
In those days, every single job I had required me to be on site, performing my skills for 8-12 hours a day, 5-6 days a week, at least 48 weeks a year.
Yes it's hard to "make it" in the music business, but it wasn't easy for me at any of the various tasks I chose. I had to work my ass off to be even slightly financially successful. Those who do "make it" in music are financially rewarded beyond my wildest dreams, but you first have to have the talent and secondly put forth the required effort, what ever that means.

One imagines you didn't have people telling you constantly that they weren't going to pay you for your labour after you'd already done the work, and when you replied "that's theft" they made up a bunch of intellectually dishonest nonsense to justify that they weren't actually stealing from you.

 

[j_j]

I'm not terribly sympathetic to be honest.
I've worn a number of different hats during my working years.
In those days, every single job I had required me to be on site, performing my skills for 8-12 hours a day, 5-6 days a week, at least 48 weeks a year.
Yes it's hard to "make it" in the music business, but it wasn't easy for me at any of the various tasks I chose. I had to work my ass off to be even slightly financially successful. Those who do "make it" in music are financially rewarded beyond my wildest dreams, but you first have to have the talent and secondly put forth the required effort, what ever that means.

Well, the songwriting, practice, equipment, and so on adds up to a full time job for anyone who's actually trying to "make it big". So it's not in any fashion an easy life, even if you ARE Taylor Swift or something of that sort. (And, yes, I'm tired of songs about her last terrible boyfriend.)

Making a living as an artist is ***MUCH*** more iffy than making money as, say, a person who mows lawns. Probably much less physically demanding (but there are physical demands as well), but it's much harder to make minimum wage as an artist, be it musician, painter, whatever.

On top of that, presently looks win out over skill and ability for most record labels. Hence, horrors like "autotune".

 

[krabapple]

For sure, that's what I meant when I said, "Discreet is best, no doubt,".

Discreet is 'best'...if the mix is good.

And by 'best" I mean I like that version the most. "Discreet' surround of course has the 'best' ...discreteness. But if the mix is shite, I don't care how discrete is it. I
l'll prefer a good upmixed stereo mix.

 

[JP]

I wonder how this one sounds. https://consequence.net/2023/03/vinyl-urine-lp-private-function/amp/

 

[Soandso]

I wonder how this one sounds. https://consequence.net/2023/03/vinyl-urine-lp-private-function/amp/

Puts new excitement into the needle drop for the jaded vinyl collector!

 

[MattHooper]

Well, the songwriting, practice, equipment, and so on adds up to a full time job for anyone who's actually trying to "make it big". So it's not in any fashion an easy life, even if you ARE Taylor Swift or something of that sort. (And, yes, I'm tired of songs about her last terrible boyfriend.)

Making a living as an artist is ***MUCH*** more iffy than making money as, say, a person who mows lawns. Probably much less physically demanding (but there are physical demands as well), but it's much harder to make minimum wage as an artist, be it musician, painter, whatever.

On top of that, presently looks win out over skill and ability for most record labels. Hence, horrors like "autotune".

Indeed. My brother is a struggling musician (who after decades is just starting to make waves). His devotes an incredible amount of work to his music career, from writing the music, gathering the musicians, recording, playing, doing tons of work trying to build word of mouth, publicity, constant attention to internet presence, hauling his gear all around doing gigs in places large and tiny...all the while, like many musicians...working at a job most nights of the week to have a roof over his head and afford to do all the stuff for his music.

He seems to be never NOT working.

 

[MattHooper]

The intent of the artist is to sell physical copies and make $10-$20 instead of earning a fraction of a pittance for streaming.

That seems to be a rather two-dimensional consideration of the intent of an artist.

I think you are missing that many of the musicians aren't just extolling vinyl "so that people will purchase their vinyl." They themselves often mention how they enjoy - some even prefer - vinyl as a musical medium. And even how they find that physical vinyl copy to feel the most "concrete" form of their achievement in putting out a record.

This is how musicians I know personally feel about putting out vinyl, and I've seen it repeated over and over in interviews with other musicians.
As always, I find cynicism tends to lead to over-simplifications...(and which bring forth inaccuracies...)

Reminds me, I was recently watching an interview with Björn Ulvaeus of ABBA who talked about recently purchasing a new hi-fi and turntable set up, that he has enjoyed the experience and wistfully saying in a nostalgic way "there's something about the sound..."

I don't need to ascribe some hidden agenda to his mentioning an enjoyment of vinyl. It's not like that guy is a starving artist who needs money.

 

[SuicideSquid]

That seems to be a rather two-dimensional consideration of the intent of an artist.

I think you are missing that many of the musicians aren't just extolling vinyl "so that people will purchase their vinyl." They themselves often mention how they enjoy - some even prefer - vinyl as a musical medium. And even how they find that physical vinyl copy to feel the most "concrete" form of their achievement in putting out a record.

This is how musicians I know personally feel about putting out vinyl, and I've seen it repeated over and over in interviews with other musicians.
As always, I find cynicism tends to lead to over-simplifications...(and which bring forth inaccuracies...)

Reminds me, I was recently watching an interview with Björn Ulvaeus of ABBA who talked about recently purchasing a new hi-fi and turntable set up, that he has enjoyed the experience and wistfully saying in a nostalgic way "there's something about the sound..."

I don't need to ascribe some hidden agenda to his mentioning an enjoyment of vinyl. It's not like that guy is a starving artist who needs money.

Well I'm an artist who makes about $60 a month on streaming and who much prefers CDs to vinyl.

I don't think it's a hidden agenda at all. Artists prefer physical formats generally for a lot of reasons, and "we actually make money on them" is a big one.