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Vinyl sound for free
- Thread starter pierre
- Start date
I love it!!! I wonder what the reaction will be on other more vinyl orientated fora.......
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Id like a slider to mimic beer consumption as a effect on perceived sound quality.
Id probably have it constantly on max though .
Id probably have it constantly on max though .
I chose not to look for the ' drop a bollock' emoji .
watchnerd
Grand Contributor
Izotope released a Free plugin to emulate vinyl sound. I am not an expert but it sounds convincing close to a turntable.
Analog emulation DSP plugins have been around for a while....
https://www.uaudio.com/uad-plugins/all-plugins.html
We now living a world where:
1. Many LPs are mastered in digital
2. The use of analog simulation effects via DSP is common among certain genres of music, which is often then released in DR-compressed lossy digital, LP, and "HD" digital.
3. You'll find increasing discussions on Gearslutz of people mixing on a DAW, then dubbing the final mix to a RTR deck in order to introduce analog compression effects, then sending that back to digital as the master.
Digital and analog are increasingly mixed together to create effects. Consumer purists of either camp may not be getting the 'pristine' product they imagine.
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watchnerd
Grand Contributor
Well, aside from the 'omg digital yuck' (despite the fact that many listened to digitally (re-) mastered LPs), I suspect it won't correctly emulate the in-room acoustic feedback / distortion that happens when loud music adds additional vibration / coloration to the TT/tonearm/cartridge, because that varies immensely by setup.
It's pretty trivial to emulate the rolloff slopes, EQ, and dynamic limits of vinyl via DSP. It's pretty hard to emulate the chaos factor.
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I think it's cool that these plugins are available, especially for free.
However, I've always felt that these plugins are too gimmicky, because they (understandably) cater to the mainstream aspect of vinyl sound, which is precisely the crackles, noise, etc that make vinyl sound "old school" or "retro."
Personally I generally listen to digital sources and don't feel the need to try to mimic a vinyl sound. But putting that aside for the moment, what I'd really like to see - and IMHO what makes vinyl attractive to self-described audiophiles in particular - is a plugin that emulates phono cartridges rather than the mechanical flaws of turntables and LPs themselves. My hypothesis - and I freely admit it's just a hypothesis, with nothing more than impressionistic and anecdotal evidence back this up - is that most of the audiophile preference for vinyl comes from the resonances of the playback system, particularly the resonant nature of the stylus tracking a physical groove, plus the frequency-variable channel crosstalk introduced by the LP/cartridge link in the chain.
So many audiophiles report that to them vinyl has a cohesive sound that digital lacks, and I cannot think of a better main candidate for the cause of that than reduced channel separation produced by crosstalk - which crosstalk is very difficult to reproduce digitally because it is so variable. Similarly, vinyl often has softened highs (or upper-mids) and more resonant bass, which is an artifact of reduced fidelity but which many folks find pleasant - drums become more "organic" or "natural-sounding" to some folks' ears, and mids and/or highs become less "edgy/harsh" or have less "bite."
Let me be 100% clear - I personally am not an advocate or fan of that kind of euphonic distortion. But I have heard it with vinyl and vinyl rips, and my only point is that the stuff that makes a lot of self-identified audiophiles prefer vinyl is not, IMHO, addressed by these vinyl plugins. IMHO the most likely factors are crosstalk and resonance.
However, I've always felt that these plugins are too gimmicky, because they (understandably) cater to the mainstream aspect of vinyl sound, which is precisely the crackles, noise, etc that make vinyl sound "old school" or "retro."
Personally I generally listen to digital sources and don't feel the need to try to mimic a vinyl sound. But putting that aside for the moment, what I'd really like to see - and IMHO what makes vinyl attractive to self-described audiophiles in particular - is a plugin that emulates phono cartridges rather than the mechanical flaws of turntables and LPs themselves. My hypothesis - and I freely admit it's just a hypothesis, with nothing more than impressionistic and anecdotal evidence back this up - is that most of the audiophile preference for vinyl comes from the resonances of the playback system, particularly the resonant nature of the stylus tracking a physical groove, plus the frequency-variable channel crosstalk introduced by the LP/cartridge link in the chain.
So many audiophiles report that to them vinyl has a cohesive sound that digital lacks, and I cannot think of a better main candidate for the cause of that than reduced channel separation produced by crosstalk - which crosstalk is very difficult to reproduce digitally because it is so variable. Similarly, vinyl often has softened highs (or upper-mids) and more resonant bass, which is an artifact of reduced fidelity but which many folks find pleasant - drums become more "organic" or "natural-sounding" to some folks' ears, and mids and/or highs become less "edgy/harsh" or have less "bite."
Let me be 100% clear - I personally am not an advocate or fan of that kind of euphonic distortion. But I have heard it with vinyl and vinyl rips, and my only point is that the stuff that makes a lot of self-identified audiophiles prefer vinyl is not, IMHO, addressed by these vinyl plugins. IMHO the most likely factors are crosstalk and resonance.
watchnerd
Grand Contributor
I have the same hypothesis....the resonances are a big part of the sound. My tonearm has variable fluid-damping and if I over-damp it, i.e tame the resonances more, it doesn't sound as good (although it might be higher fidelity), having squashed dynamics.
As for modeling cartridges...very cool idea, but also probably nearly impossible given the variances in how loading, stylus shape, alignment, azimuth, VTF, and position on the record (inner vs outer tracks) interact with all of the above to change the sound. This would seem hard to broadly model.
The blessing / curse of vinyl is that it really is subject to tweakery / audiophilia nervosa.
restorer-john
Grand Contributor
The abbey road one is the gold standard...
watchnerd
Grand Contributor
What...what the heck is that supposed to be?
And what does it have to do with Abbey Roads?
(who recorded using modified Studer decks, FWIW...)
restorer-john
Grand Contributor
You could always go look it up for yourself.
https://www.kvraudio.com/product/abbey-road---vinyl-by-waves
watchnerd
Grand Contributor
I did. And I still had WTF-itis.
"a precise model of Abbey Road Studios' vinyl cutting, mastering and playback gear"
The cutting lathe doesn't have buttons for different cartridge or 'AR vs DJ' turntables.
Precise model....not!
watchnerd
Grand Contributor
Just give me the music and my system will play it warts-and-all. That is fine by me. No hi-end required here if all it does is point out the inaudible defects.
I did put a lot of research and building effort into my DIY speakers, though.
I did put a lot of research and building effort into my DIY speakers, though.
watchnerd
Grand Contributor
Just give me the music and my system will play it warts-and-all. That is fine by me. No hi-end required here if all it does is point out the inaudible defects.
Oh and where’s mom? Crying in the kitchen again, Trebrek!
Vinyl sound for money: https://www.weiss.ch/products/dac501-dac502:
"Vinyl Emulation - get that special sonic character of a record player based playback chain. We also employ an emulation of the DMM-CD procedure offered by the Stockfisch label".
Also, https://www.weiss.ch/assets/product/23/EQ_DAC-Strmr_Weiss_Wit_F38_en-.pdf - page 149.
Looks like a very potent DAC, just a "bit" too expensive for my taste.
"Vinyl Emulation - get that special sonic character of a record player based playback chain. We also employ an emulation of the DMM-CD procedure offered by the Stockfisch label".
Also, https://www.weiss.ch/assets/product/23/EQ_DAC-Strmr_Weiss_Wit_F38_en-.pdf - page 149.
Looks like a very potent DAC, just a "bit" too expensive for my taste.
Ha ha i try to do the opposite avoid/cancel vinyl background hiss with audacity Noise removal works realy fine.
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