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Vinyl record clamp

TBone

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Hi Sal ... yes sir, rich history indeed.

IMO, past the choice of arm ... the weak link in many (but not all) of these AR influenced decks was the sub-plinth design. It took Linn decades to figure this out ...

And if memory serves ... the rd11 had a metal on metal type bearing design that required careful maintenance. Without such ... it would incur perminent damage.
 

DonH56

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I think the old TT I kept is an AR, not sure and it's boxed away. Magnepan arm on it, however, and when I bought it it had a Grace arm on it IIRC so I never actually used it with the AR arm (though heard plenty of 'em on other folks' tables).
 

Sal1950

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Hi Sal ... yes sir, rich history indeed.
My rig circa 1980, still running my AR-XB ;)
Check out the pre computer encyclopedias in the back right.

PhaseLinear.jpg
 

TBone

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Great pic Sal.

Once upon a time, many moons ago, I was asked to "fix" a AR. The owner had traded his platter with another AR owner, who claimed this particular platter was superior.

When I got there, it was obviously not, and to make matters near impossible to "fix" ... the attached male bearing had a much smaller diameter. The only fix was to get his orig platter back (which he couldn't) or machine a new female assembly. When I quoted him the price for the machining, he balked and sulked, dissing me and my diagnosis. "Negative attitudes" abound ...
 

restorer-john

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Has anyone experienced CD warp, excluding mistreatment?

Yes. In the early days of CD where the 'warp' was caused by a combination of various factors.

I shall explain.

Two distinct processes for disc manufacturing resulted in very slightly different centre hole parameters. The Sanyo and Sony method moulded the disc and centre hole in one go, resulting in the stepped moulding, but perfect centre hole, sealed both on the inside and outside edges. Track spiral eccentricity was pretty good but not perfect. The spring clamps of the Japanese machines were very good at self centering and leveling the disc- warp was not a problem and the lateral tracking systems were able to easily compensate. Coarse tracking would increment the sled, and fine tracking could deal with eccentric data spiral issues.

The Philips method involved optically centering the track spiral after manufacture, machining the centre hole and trimming the edges of the disc. This left the edge of the aluminium layer open to the atmosphere and caused the dreaded 'laser-rot' as the aluminium oxidised from the inner and outer edges. It also sometimes resulted in rough centre holes which didn't mate perfectly with some clamps, resulting in the disc spinning, but slightly moving up and down like a warp as it rotated. Focus servos were unable to compensate, particularly at the outside of the disc, where the effect was exacerbated.

Many machines were incorrectly diagnosed as having focus/tracking issues when it was the discs themselves that were at fault. Many early Polygram discs were returned to retailers as faulty, due to swarf or rough holes not mating with clamps well. Yields and tolerances improved once Philips/Polygram changed their disc manufacturing processes to bring them in line with the Japanese.

If you want to see how much warp there is on CDs, put an oscilloscope probe onto the focus coil drive and monitor the waveform- it is amazing how warped they actually are. All CDs have warps, some more so than others.
 

TBone

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Nice post ...
... I've seen this first hand on several transports ...

when the CD is engaged by the transport, a magnetic puck drops into place to hold the disk, then the CD starts to spin. On some drives, a lucky 1 out of 8 runs perfect, no visual wable. However ... most are so unbalanced it makes you wonder how hard the transport works maintaining laser contact (or how much error correction is being applied).

Its a job and a half properly balancing the puck to drop directly on the CD balanced. Frustrating as it is (some drives are easier to work on than others) it can be done, to further complicate matters .. sadly ... many CD will never run true.

Yet another reason to properly archive your favorite CDs ...
 

Sal1950

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Leaving them on the dashboard on a hot summer day could take it's toll.
 

TBone

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Never mind CD rot ... and ... the delicate nature of the label side with the early CDs).
 
OP
S

Spirit84

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my intro to hi-end vinyl included the RD11. Been a while since I worked on one though. I own that same papst motor, and its mounting assembly. It can be run in either AC or DC mode. Age takes its toll, you will eventually have to replace one specific capacitor ... it will certainly not perform to spec and it will eventually fail and perhaps smoke the entire board. This is common to this motor.

When I have time, and if you are interested, I can further post some relatively easy DIY maintainance items ... esp critical, re lubing its main bearing for max performance and longevity.

2 Q's ... what arm? and is the clamp you purchase a "weight" clamp or does it one that grips the spindal? The grip kind are far superior ... based on a function that is rarily if ever addressed.

tb1
Hey TBone, thanks for the reply - very kind of you.
Arm: audiomods from England
Motor: outboard DC motor from Origin Live.
Tech lubed the main bearing a few years ago.
Clamp ordered: Michell clamp which I believe grips the spindal.
 

TBone

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Hi Spirit, interesting deck. Recently i internally modified my OL DC 200 motor. I take it you are using the small diameter OL pulley which means the motor revolves at a relatively high rpm.

That's fine ... it supplies plenty of torque with that setup, but depending on the motor, additional noise maybe an issue. Almost purchased a Audiomod about 4 years ago, not to replace my Alphason (it can't) but as a secondary arm on my non-ripping deck.

Anyway ... back to the black art of vinyl clamping ... later this week I will post a detailed dedicate post on the subject. The vasttttttt majority of people and "reviewers" who use clamps make the same common error during setup, ignoring the most critical step ...
 

Sal1950

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I'm having a senior moment but keep flashing back on CD's that "for some reason I can't remember" were being spun at very elevated speeds and coming apart very violently. Dang I just can't remember why it was being done but I can see the blown transport doors, etc; with my minds eye.

We can go nostalgic all we want but the little silver discs were a revelation to most peoples listening habits. I'm lazy and all the convenience of CD's, along with their SQ, etc, etc; took control of my buying habits almost instantly once I could afford my first player. The same has now happened here after my introduction to streaming, haven't bought more than a handful of CD's since I first subscribed to Spotify.
With CD's I mourned the loss of all the beautiful artwork that was the part of the LP's world. That and the published lyrics plus all the additional info that was in my hands as I played a new LP. Little things that added to the whole experience of music listening.
Streaming now has brought access and convenience to a new level but depending on the streamer software, hardware, and the label, etc it's hard to know exactly what bits and pieces might be available.
If the vinyl LP can be rightfully praised it is in these areas beyond SQ. The inclusion of these documents made the LP a full musical package, and have been missing in some or all areas of high performance packages such as HDTracks, etc.
 

TBone

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Unfortunately ... my streamer failed relatively recently. It did so after a particularly confused and comprehensive win10 upgrade. By morning ... the streamer was dead.

Sad, because I was really starting to enjoy it, certainly its conveniences ... in terms of sound quality it was a mixed bag. The thing is ... although it proved not as accurate (listening & measured) as my two main digital sources ... it was being played a great deal more.

My biggest issue with the streaming services is the consistent poor mastering quality ... much like my opinion on low DR remasters vs originals ... Ive long determined that playing compressed music is not my favorite cup of sonic tea.
 

restorer-john

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on CD's that "for some reason I can't remember" were being spun at very elevated speeds and coming apart very violently. Dang I just can't remember why it was being done but I can see the blown transport doors, etc; with my minds eye.

There were rumours of issues such as these in the days when computer IDE CDROMs were hitting 48X speeds. (approx 24,000rpm at its highest). There may have been a few spindle motors that self destructed etc. Not an issue on domestic HiFi players.
 

RayDunzl

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TBone

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This is from the early 80s but I am yet to see one as well thought out from an "understanding the physics" pov rather than styling and what we old blokes called hairy-a*sed engineering prevalent today. The Continuum had a lot of good analysis done but was ridiculously expensive, as most are today.

Agreed. Too many super-expensive over-engineered, underachieving turntables on the market today, many look like Oil-rigs. One such super-expensive table, which gets consistently praised on WBF (continued thread labeled by it's brand name) is case in point. When the company founder brought it to town for demo, it proved very disappointing. The owner of the establishment, in which the demo took place, later said - "just another 'table not ready for prime-time." He was being nice ...
 

Sal1950

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Too many super-expensive over-engineered, underachieving turntables on the market today, many look like Oil-rigs.
Yes but they look so KOOL.
If you have one of those at the center of your HiFi shrine your friends just KNOW you have arrived. :cool:
 

TBone

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Yes but they look so KOOL.

Matter of taste, I guess.

... your friends just KNOW you have arrived

Long ago, when I was really into sports cars, Holley carbs & headers ... my friends would always comment that they heard me arriving, well before I arrived ...
 

TBone

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