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Vintage vs New Turntable?

madmanmandzu

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Hi everyone,

One of my uncle's just recently passed away and my cousins gifted me all his LPs. I'd like to pick up a turntable but i haven't used one in 30 years so I have no clue where to start. Do I go used or new? Can anyone give me recommendations on makes/models to look for. My budget is about $500. I'd like to connect it to my RME ADI-2 DAC FS and i am using the turntable to solely listen to music through headphones.

Thanks for the help
 

FrantzM

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You may need a phono preamp...
I'd go for a vintage Japanese 1970~1980 direct drive TT.. eBay has a lot of these and they may even in their old age and used condition have good measurements.. Click on image
1629923522333.png
 

Phorize

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Hi everyone,

One of my uncle's just recently passed away and my cousins gifted me all his LPs. I'd like to pick up a turntable but i haven't used one in 30 years so I have no clue where to start. Do I go used or new? Can anyone give me recommendations on makes/models to look for. My budget is about $500. I'd like to connect it to my RME ADI-2 DAC FS and i am using the turntable to solely listen to music through headphones.

Thanks for the help

Firstly I’m sorry that your uncle passed away. You are going to need a phono stage, something like the emotiva that Amir reviewed would be good, or the Art audio stage also tested. A budget tt new would keep costs down, I’m in the U.K so would go for something like a rega planar 1 or project deck as they are well supported and simple to set up. US based members may be able to recommend a domestic manufacturer with a good budget deck. You’ll need some basic set up tools and something to clean the records with, such as a Knosti disco antistat or US equivalent. A modest vintage deck can get expensive, so think twice before going that route unless you are able to work on it. To be honest I’d say think twice about buying a turntable at all unless you have a lot of interesting material that isn’t available via streaming-that’s coming from a turntable enthusiast. In fact most vinyl enthusiasts here would say get out whilst you can. If you simply must do it, I’m sure a U.S based member will chime in with a recommendation.
 

Phorize

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You may need a phono preamp...
I'd go for a vintage Japanese 1970~1980 direct drive TT.. eBay has a lot of these and they may even in their old age and used condition have good measurements.. Click on image
View attachment 149505

Interesting deck that. How easy are parts and servicing for these in the U.S?
 
OP
M

madmanmandzu

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Thanks so much for the condolences Phorize.

I've been checking vintage ones for a while now and also looking at local shops so i know they will be in good working order. I found what looks to be a mid-80s Rega P2, cosmetic 8 and working condition a 10 for $400. Also a mid-70s Pioneer PLA35, fully serviced, all original for $300.

I'm not really sure what i want. I still listen to CDs as well. I understand what you are saying about digital but it's like when i tell someone to stop buying physical books when all you need to do is carry around a reader or tablet. There's just something about having an LP or CD in hand.
 

Phorize

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Thanks so much for the condolences Phorize.

I've been checking vintage ones for a while now and also looking at local shops so i know they will be in good working order. I found what looks to be a mid-80s Rega P2, cosmetic 8 and working condition a 10 for $400. Also a mid-70s Pioneer PLA35, fully serviced, all original for $300.

I'm not really sure what i want. I still listen to CDs as well. I understand what you are saying about digital but it's like when i tell someone to stop buying physical books when all you need to do is carry around a reader or tablet. There's just something about having an LP or CD in hand.

I hear you. Out of interest how many LPs are we talking about? The Pioneer looks great and if it’s well serviced then the price is reasonable. A word of caution re vintage anything; if you just want something that stays out of your way for casual listening, something like the deck Pioneer will be fine. If you intend using it regularly, expect mechanical breakdown at some point. What do you intend to do re: phono stage, cartridge, tt adjustment and cleaning?
 

Willem

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If you want to combine it with the RME ADI-2 you will need a phono stage with an analogue to digital converter built in. I use one by Project into my ADI-2, but it did not measure very well. On the other hand, I doubt that the electronic imperfections are larger than the imperfections of the medium. My plan had been to ditch vinyl, but my family would not let me, so I kept my LP12/SME 3009, and it looks nice, but streaming via a CCA into my ADI-2 sounds better.
 

anmpr1

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I'd go for a vintage Japanese 1970~1980 direct drive TT.. eBay has a lot of these and they may even in their old age and used condition have good measurements.. Click on image
With vintage the main issue is one of repair. The more complicated the deck, and the more proprietary the parts, the more difficult it will be to service. The Denon in your picture is one of the more complex turntables from the era. If I am not mistaken, it uses a quartz lock, tachometer based servo consisting of a magnetic strip under the platter, that is 'read' by a tape head, in order to regulate speed. If this becomes misaligned, or unfunctional, the chances of repair are slim. The tonearm uses electro mechanical motors for damping and stylus force/skating. If that breaks, good luck with it. Certainly a marvel of price point engineering underscoring the sophistication of consumer products during the heyday of analog.

Of course service life for any component is difficult if not impossible to estimate. I've mentioned this before: I have a Garrard Z-100 from 1970 that is still going strong. An SL-1100a from 1975 that works fine, and an SL-1200Mk5 from 2005, ditto. On the other hand, my Dual 704 from 1977 went up in smoke several months ago, leaving the foul smell of burning parts in the room.

As far as ebay? I'd think twice about that place. From slumming the offers, it seems like it's a last resort for people looking to ditch gear that is not working properly. You often read: "I have no way to test this, but when I put it in storage 20 years ago it was working fine." LOL

Also, prices sellers are asking for used throw-away condition stuff is often ridiculous. I'm not sayin' there's no honest sellers. Not at all. But there's a lot of less than honest gear from the '70s and '80s out there, and whether you want to take a chance is a big decision. If I was tempted to purchase something 30 or 40 years old, I'd make a low-ball offer, and walk away if it is not accepted.
 

sergeauckland

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As a fan of vintage equipment, I echo the above. If you're into DIY and repairs, and you know your way round electromechanical items, then fine, otherwise I'd keep away. One exception I think, is purely mechanical vintage items like the Swiss Lenco turntables which have very little to go wrong, and even then, parts are readily available. I'd avoid the Garrard 301 and 401, not because there's anything wrong with those, but prices have got silly these days, whilst the Lenco L75 is still sensibly priced. I bought an almost immaculate one for a very acceptable price last year, and all it needed was the rubber vertical arm bearings replacing, available for a few pounds and taking 10 minutes to fit. There are lots of similar idler drive turntables from the 1960s and 70s, which if in decent cosmetic condition, would be easy to get working properly again.

I have two other turntables from the 1980s, both professional Broadcast units, and I dread anything breaking on those, as they're both pretty rare, one especially so.

S.
 

anmpr1

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PS: I want to clarify what I wrote about used gear. What I was getting at is that if you can fix it yourself, or know someone who can fix it, and if parts are available, there is no problem. It is why an originally expensive McIntosh amplifier from 1975 still commands top dollar. They can be easily fixed and hence hold their value. On the other hand, an originally expensive Audio Research amplifier with 'blown' Analog Modules(tm) is going to be worthless.
 

Phorize

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With vintage the main issue is one of repair. The more complicated the deck, and the more proprietary the parts, the more difficult it will be to service. The Denon in your picture is one of the more complex turntables from the era. If I am not mistaken, it uses a quartz lock, tachometer based servo consisting of a magnetic strip under the platter, that is 'read' by a tape head, in order to regulate speed. If this becomes misaligned, or unfunctional, the chances of repair are slim. The tonearm uses electro mechanical motors for damping and stylus force/skating. If that breaks, good luck with it. Certainly a marvel of price point engineering underscoring the sophistication of consumer products during the heyday of analog.

Of course service life for any component is difficult if not impossible to estimate. I've mentioned this before: I have a Garrard Z-100 from 1970 that is still going strong. An SL-1100a from 1975 that works fine, and an SL-1200Mk5 from 2005, ditto. On the other hand, my Dual 704 from 1977 went up in smoke several months ago, leaving the foul smell of burning parts in the room.

As far as ebay? I'd think twice about that place. From slumming the offers, it seems like it's a last resort for people looking to ditch gear that is not working properly. You often read: "I have no way to test this, but when I put it in storage 20 years ago it was working fine." LOL

Also, prices sellers are asking for used throw-away condition stuff is often ridiculous. I'm not sayin' there's no honest sellers. Not at all. But there's a lot of less than honest gear from the '70s and '80s out there, and whether you want to take a chance is a big decision. If I was tempted to purchase something 30 or 40 years old, I'd make a low-ball offer, and walk away if it is not accepted.

Most vintage gear on eBay is grossly overvalued, and often not well looked after. You can get a good buy (I have done) but there is no shortage of people apparently willing to pay big money for borderline unrepairable items with no understanding of that they are way out of spec and cost way more than is economic to render optimal.

I’d go new everytime if the objective is just to listen to music.
 

Robin L

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I've owned far too many turntables. People would give me old rim drive, belt drive and direct drive turntables in dodgy shape. I didn't know how to fix them. The best luck I've had with used turntables is with Technics direct drive turntables. The greater the number of moving parts in a turntable, the sooner that turntable will require repairs. Whatever you do, do not get a rim-drive record changer like the Dual or PE 'tables from the seventies.

How big is this record collection? I had 2000 LPs when I finally decided it wasn't worth the effort. I had a Strathclyde 305-M tt with a SME III arm, it went out of alignment and I couldn't find a replacement belt. What I wound up using was an early Technics direct drive with automatic return, that was more stable than the Strathclyde, partially because the suspended sub-chassis was never quite right, and the Technics having minimum isolation so there was little to go out of adjustment.

If it's a small [200 or fewer LPs] collection, get the Audio Technica AT-LP60X or AT-LP60XBT. Less than $200 gets you turntable, phono pre, cartridge and in the case of the AT-LP60XBT, Bluetooth. Is it the best sounding turntable? No, but meaningful improvements will be costly. If it's a large collection and you really want to deal with LPs [which have an extraordinarily high propensity for physical damage and considerably lower fidelity than even MP3---thus me dumping my whole collection of LPs], I'd save up my money for one of Technics' recent direct drive offerings. That would be over three times your budget, but it also would offer a meaningful improvement in sound quality. Do not get a used turntable.
 

makinao

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I was a consultant for a re-issue project early this year, and needed a turntable to audition the pressings. I looked at used ones, and realized the cost of the unit, plus a new cartridge, plus a phono preamp would be the same as a new one. I opted for a new a audio-technica LP120xusb on sale because it was DD, had a decent cartridge, built-in USB and phono preamp. The tonearm lifter didnt descend as slow as I wanted, so I added some silicon oil. It was just ok, nothing special, but it got the job done. I havent used it since the project ended though.
 
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Jim Shaw

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My opinion is that a vintage turntable is a crapshoot. Turntables are very mechanical devices, including the drive unit, the platter, the bearings, the tonearm balancing mechanism, and on and on. Mechanical things wear out with use. Grease and oils dry out with age. Cartridge stylus suspensions age and may harden. Motor bearings get worn and loose. Belts harden and break from age and use.

Most importantly, parts may be unobtainable. If the motor bearings are shot or their self-lubrication has dried up, what are you going to do if the manufacturer is either kaput or no longer has parts? Where can you get an exact fit belt? The local hardware store cannot help you.

I am in favor of new(er) equipment of a mechanical nature. You will use it carefully, as its previous owners' kids probably didn't. Or, you could get a good one? Like I say, it's a crapshoot.
 

Robin L

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I was a consultant for a re-issue project early this year, and needed a turntable to audition the pressings. I looked at used ones, and realized the cost of the unit, plus a new cartridge, plus a phono preamp would be the same as a new one. I opted for a new a audio-technica LP120xusb on sale because it was DD, had a decent cartridge, built-in USB and phono preamp. The tonearm lifter didnt descend as slow as I wanted, so I added some silicon oil. It was just ok, nothing special, but it got the job done. I havent used it since the project ended though.
This turntable is a step above the AT LP 60, the sound quality is only a little better. The AT 120 has a more solid plinth and is direct drive.
 

Hiten

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A general question. Do vintage Direct Drive Turntables (I have Technics) need capacitor replacement in any important area of circuit design ?
Thanks and regards.
 

MCH

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If you are new to the turntable/records hobby, buy a new one. 500$ should buy something decent to start with, and will come all set from factory. Look at it as a precision instrument: if it is used and you don't know what to look at... the chances of getting into issues are high...
As someone mentioned, if you were in EU, rega or project have a lot of models around that price, in the US no clue. Unless you plan to DJing, i wouldn't care about the eternal direct drive vs belt discussion...
 

Phorize

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i wouldn't care about the eternal direct drive vs belt discussion...

Agree, an idler is the only way to go, preferably with a massive 4 pole motor:p
 

sergeauckland

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A general question. Do vintage Direct Drive Turntables (I have Technics) need capacitor replacement in any important area of circuit design ?
Thanks and regards.
Only if it's not working properly, speed constancy, slow startup or an other reason to doubt correct operation. Capacitors last a very long time if correctly rated, so I would only ever consider changing capacitors if I had a good reason to do so, not just because of age. This applies equally to any piece of electronics, whether amplifiers, turntables or whatever.

S.
 
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