Vintage VS new: KEF 105/3 or Focal Aria 948

[FRQ]

First and foremost, let me apologize for this at first glance silly question that opens the vintage vs. new can of worms. I promise I can explain!

Over the last few years, I've been renovating a 150 year old house, which has resulted in endless dust and a series of temporary furniture layouts moving from room to room. To accomodate this sad state of affairs, a set of active Loewe L2A floorstanders (built/designed by Linn) and a Khadas Toneboard DAC were purchased which have served me well. Durable plastic, metal grills, 80wpc active, easy to move, even easier on the wallet.

They performed better than expected and over the last year they've been hooked up to a 70wpc 1978 Denon PMA 701, but now the dust has literally settled and it's time to upgrade.

I did some research and landed on the Focal Aria 948 for a 5x8m room. These can be bought on the secondhand market for about 1300€ which seems a lot of bang for buck and almost a no brainer, but... I've always lusted after a pair of KEF 105/3.

I like vintage stuff. Sometimes to my detriment.

The KEF design is timeless and half the price of the Arias to boot. I can't exactly audition both and am wondering about the real world performance gap between the modern Focals and the 30 year old KEF. My current baseline is the 20 year old Loewes so either would be a big step up.

In both cases, they would be driven by a Parasound HCA-1500 amp & P/LD-2000 pre amp.

I'm also open to suggestions regarding an alternative for the Focals, as long as they have similar dimensions, pricepoint (or cheaper of course) and classic/neutral looks.

Joining here for some insights from more knowledgeable people that share my strange audio affliction seemed like a logical next move.

So, what would you do?

 

[suttondesign]

kef, hands down. if you only knew how much they measured and tested even decades ago.

 

[FRQ]

kef, hands down. if you only knew how much they measured and tested even decades ago.

Well that's at least one resounding vote for the KEFs and to be honest, I'm strongly leaning towards them as well, but there's always this doubt it's a decision based on some romantic notion that "they don't make 'em like they used to", so it seems prudent to keep an open mind.

Objectively, it would be nice to have something new and reliable that takes troubleshooting scenarios off the table where you're left hunting for unobtanium parts for weeks on end or hunched over a tweeter wicking up old ferrofluid like an audiophilic Gollum.

The Focals would have to be a lot better to put the KEFs out of my mind though and they're probably not...

 

[Nopiano]

I think these KEFs have an internal, piston-coupled driver system which often needs repairing. If you have the knowledge and skills then they are probably a great option. If you like the monolithic wood design then they are often in good cosmetic condition compared to similarly aged compact speakers.

In fact, ordinarily, I’d prefer almost any KEF to any Focal, though I did hear some lovely Focal Kanta 2 in a very nice domestic system recently that were excellent. For €1,300 you should be able to get some newer KEF R5 as a newer option that should need no attention. That said, I’m basing that on UK prices so it depends on your local market.

 

[sergeauckland]

Provided the driver surrounds are good, there's not much that can go wrong with the KEFs. Even if they have perished, they're not hard to replace. The 105.3 had the optional Kube active bass equaliser, but even without it, great 'speakers.

S

 

[FRQ]

I am aware of the age related problems that the KEFs are often suffering from by now, I'd even prefer an original, untouched pair with issues to a rebuilt pair where it's hard to know if the repairs have been carried out properly. Unfortunately that's a tall order, they are quite a rare speaker and most have had some work done by now.

But to rationalize further, the 105/3s probably will never significantly depreciate at this point, so monetarily, they're the smarter buy if I'd want to upgrade at a later time.

Looks like I've sort of talked myself into them. Not really a surprise, it's the same train of thought that caused me to end up with a 40 year old Alfa Romeo as a daily driver.

 

[Petrushka]

I have KEF 105.3s

I bought them used. The woofers needed re-foaming, which I did. I consider that a complete success.

The tweeter ferrofluid was solid varnish, and I replaced the coils with some from eBay. This was less successful, and I am using DSP to smooth the response.

DSP also smooths the room response. My wife has better hearing, and she says they sound large and effortless compared to anything she has heard.

The tweeters are the big issue. If you can successfully replace the ferrofluid, I think they are a great product. But I have no way to compare them to a good modern speaker.

 

[Petrushka]

Regarding re-foaming:

I’ve done dozens of driver foam replacements, and these were the trickiest. The gap is narrow, and there is a risk of rubbing.

 

[FRQ]

The tweeter ferrofluid was solid varnish, and I replaced the coils with some from eBay. This was less successful, and I am using DSP to smooth the response.

DSP also smooths the room response. My wife has better hearing, and she says they sound large and effortless compared to anything she has heard.

The tweeters are the big issue. If you can successfully replace the ferrofluid, I think they are a great product. But I have no way to compare them to a good modern speaker.

Those do seem like the biggest issue from everything I've read. If I buy the KEFs, I would immediately try to find a working set of tweeters to keep on the shelf for some peace of mind.

 

[DSJR]

Can KEF offer parts and/or service on them these days? Gawd I feel old, as I remember when these were launched at a Heathrow HiFi Show.

 

[Petrushka]

Those do seem like the biggest issue from everything I've read. If I buy the KEFs, I would immediately try to find a working set of tweeters to keep on the shelf for some peace of mind.

Good luck. I’ve looked. If you find some, they might be repaired. KEF ran out of replacements some years ago.

 

[Petrushka]

The base, with room correction, is impressive. My non scientific way of judging bass is by whether I can distinguish the pitch of kettledrums and low organ pedal notes.

The 105 woofers are sealed, so there is no port noise.

 

[Talisman]

Guys, with all due respect to KEF, the Focal 948s are a much more recent design, and Focal generally has excellent quality and always measure quite well. Those 948s are high-end speakers; I'd be really surprised if they sounded worse than much older speakers. Be careful, though, as they have two huge 9-inch woofers; in small or problematic rooms, they can easily overload the room's modes.

 

[FRQ]

Can KEF offer parts and/or service on them these days? Gawd I feel old, as I remember when these were launched at a Heathrow HiFi Show.

Nope, as far as i understand, in terms of manufacturer support you're in the weeds at this point. Surrounds, ferrofluid and crossover cap kits can easily be sourced aftermarket though.

 

[FRQ]

Guys, with all due respect to KEF, the Focal 948s are a much more recent design, and Focal generally has excellent quality and always measure quite well. Those 948s are high-end speakers; I'd be really surprised if they sounded worse than much older speakers. Be careful, though, as they have two huge 9-inch woofers; in small or problematic rooms, they can easily overload the room's modes.

The voice of reason appears. The question isn't as much if they sound worse, but whether they're in the same league or so much better that I'd happily forgo my romantic notions about vintage KEFs.

I've looked at 926 and 936 as well, but figured a rectangular 40m² room would be able to accommodate the 948, probably not by much.

Regarding Focal build quality, I've read quite a few accounts of delaminating veneer, not sure if it's a model specific issue.

 

[Petrushka]

Nope, as far as i understand, in terms of manufacturer support you're in the weeds at this point. Surrounds, ferrofluid and crossover cap kits can easily be sourced aftermarket though.

I would not mess with the crossovers without metering the caps. I see no evidence of crossover degradation when testing with HouseCurve. I saw a video of a guy replacing a cap on a 105. It was off value by 10 percent.

I may be missing something, but I think that is within tolerance.

KEF matched the drivers on pairs. They must have allowed for some variation.

Opening a 105/case is a bit like brain surgery. I’ve done it, with good instructions.

The woofers come in pairs, and there is a metal rod connecting them. Not to be messed with without instructions.

 

[raindance]

The Focals make 100% more sense. They're modern and likely to actually work.

 

[FRQ]

I would not mess with the crossovers without metering the caps. I see no evidence of crossover degradation when testing with HouseCurve. I saw a video of a guy replacing a cap on a 105. It was off value by 10 percent.

I may be missing something, but I think that is within tolerance.

KEF matched the drivers on pairs. They must have allowed for some variation.

Opening a 105/case is a bit like brain surgery. I’ve done it, with good instructions.

The woofers come in pairs, and there is a metal rod connecting them. Not to be messed with without instructions.

No worries, I've done my homework and have zero intentions on starting to rebuild things "just because", it just seemed prudent to see what's available. I believe Falcon Acoustics in the UK have become the de facto go to for KEF cap kits, they seem to have a solid reputation.

 

[FRQ]

The Focals make 100% more sense. They're modern and likely to actually work.

Yes, that is a sensible take, something I struggle with in multiple aspects of life.

And to complicate matters further with a question that's way above my paygrade: in terms of speaker efficiency, my Parasound HCA 1500 is class A upto 15 watts or so. The KEFs have a reputation of being power hungry, not sure about the Focals. On paper, for optimal sound quality, you'd want to pair it with speakers that allow it to run in class A as much as possible, not sure how that works out in the real world.

No, no amp upgrades! That's a rabbithole for another day.

 

[raindance]

Yes, that is a sensible take, something I struggle with in multiple aspects of life.

And to complicate matters further with a question that's way above my paygrade: in terms of speaker efficiency, my Parasound HCA 1500 is class A upto 15 watts or so. The KEFs have a reputation of being power hungry, not sure about the Focals. On paper, for optimal sound quality, you'd want to pair it with speakers that allow it to run in class A as much as possible, not sure how that works out in the real world.

No, no amp upgrades! That's a rabbithole for another day.

I've had a couple of 1500a's and they're great amps if you can still get the bias set correctly. The trim pots are low quality and get quite imprecise/unstable over time. I replaced mine on the last amp through here with high quality multi-turn trim pots.