Vintage system + DAC n00b = help me decide between…

[plastic_avatar]

The situation

I’m not an audio n00b, but I’m a total DAC n00b, in practice.

My present internal debate is between an E50 for $225’ish total (new) and an X16 for $325’ish used..

The system

My current system is a Yamaha P2250 amp fed by a Parasound P/HP-850 pre w/ an old Nakamichi CD and WiiM Mini pushing the digital tunes (I might connect my computer, too). And that all goes to a great pair of modded Polk SDA-1C.

The problem

Everything is so much better on my upgraded system, I can hear ’the bad’ (in all ways) much more. So, I can tell I’ve got a lot of lost potential from my CDs and streamed sources.

But my budget is only up to $300’ish.

Where I am in my thinking

I’m pretty sure an E30 II would be great, but for $50 more the E50 seems like a much better option. $225 is really an attractive price for what I’d get.

The X16 was one of the recommendations from a Polk forum member, and I like what I’ve read about it. I wonder if it’s so much better than the E50 that a used one is worth paying at my upper limit?

I’ve got some others I’ve considered, but those^ are what I whittled it down to.

Requirements

Remote, USB, optical, coax, Mac-friendly.

Bluetooth doesn’t matter. Nor does a headphone amp.

Advice, o’ respected ASR hive mind?

Any and all advice is appreciated!

 

[staticV3]

They all sound the same, so don't spend more in hopes of better sound quality.

I'd buy an SMSL D-6 for just $20 more than the E30 II, then ditch the Parasound and connect the DAC straight to the Yamaha with 1/4" TRS to XLR cables.
Turn the Yamaha all the way down, then play music with the SMSL at 100%, then slowly turn up the Amp until it's as loud as you'll ever need.
Then leave the Amp there and just use the volume control built into the SMSL (via the knob or remote).

 

[plastic_avatar]

They all sound the same, so don't spend more in hopes of better sound quality.

I'd buy an SMSL D-6 for just $20 more than the E30 II, then ditch the Parasound...

Thank you for the insight and suggestions!

The guy who sold me the Parasound (at a bargain price for a near mint specimen) suggested a SMSL. On my radar, but didn't dig into the newer models.

I really dig the feature set, and I prefer a physical knob to the Topping models.

And I am curious to compare the pre differences. The Parasound is delightful.

I have 2 P2250, so I could easily A/B.

My turntable and eq go through the Parasound. I'd been using an old Realistic phono pre for years (was going to mod it), but the Parasound sounds amazing with my records. Doubt the uograded Realistic could compare.

So!

SMSL D-6 added to the finalists list!

Thank you, again!

 

[plastic_avatar]

I leaned hard to the E50. Just watched 2 videos about it 20 minutes ago. Decided to get one this coming Wednesday.

Got a notification that the D-6 went from 169 to 149 on Amazon. $160 after tax. Stupid tax =[

But $20 off the top matters to a thrifty stereo parent.

So I ordered the D-6.

Thankful for the recommendation @staticV3. It will be a good unit for my first, and I can pass it along if I upgrade. Like, if I ever get to put together a nicer stereo for my Dad. But who knows? Maybe I'll just get another one when that happens.

 

[plastic_avatar]

I am looking forward to comparing the D-6 to:

- the internal dac in my 30 year old CD player, which sounds better than

- HD and Ultra streamed files from Amazon via a WiiM Mini.

I expect, based on all I’ve read (and what about a dozen of you and Polk forum gurus tell me), anything on the excellent/recommended list should be an audible improvement once I get my CDs and streams pumping through one.

Everything I’ve done the past year to my system (new-to-me amps, pre, and tricked out speakers) has been an audible, palpable, measurable improvement (objectively and subjectively).

I’m curious where the D-6 will fall on the map of my system upgrades. I’m curious if other dacs will sound different. The measurement = outcome dac belief makes sense, but I do wonder what unmeasured qualities of sound are missed in the detailed measured capabilities of the equipment. I figure that’s a philosophical debate that gets kicked around every now and again, as seen when I search through the forum.

I’ve had a hard time with describing sound since I got my first stereo in 2nd grade. It was my Dad’s first major home purchase after he and my Mom set up housekeeping (as they used to say back in the day)- a Silvertone console I kept until I started piecing together a ‘real’ stereo in 8th grade through 12th. Even now, decades later, I get caught up between what seem to be mostly subjective reviews:

SMSL D-6 DAC Review

This is an in-depth review with comparisons of the new SMSL D-6 DAC which is a dual-chipset desktop design offering up to 32BIT/768kHz decoding. It is priced at $169.99 Disclaimer: This sample was sent to

headfonics.com

vs someone who says ‘look, these all do the job and sound the same’

Anyhow, I’ll report back in a month when it gets here.

Quite excited to see it I become a believer in inexpensive outboard dacs soon =)

 

[Steven Holt]

if other dacs will sound different.

You have to be careful here. A good DAC has no 'sound' at all, it's totally transparent. Never fall for that BS on YouTube.

 

[DVDdoug]

- the internal dac in my 30 year old CD player, which sounds better than

- HD and Ultra streamed files from Amazon via a WiiM Mini.

The streamed versions may from a different mix or a different master.

I recommend reading Audiophoolery and try to ignore what you read in non-scientific audiophile websites (which is 99% of the audiophile community).

If you do you own listening tests, see What is a blind ABX test?

My turntable and eq go through the Parasound. I'd been using an old Realistic phono pre for years (was going to mod it), but the Parasound sounds amazing with my records. Doubt the uograded Realistic could compare.

Personally, I gave-up trying to improve my record-playing setup when I got my 1st CD player... The "snap", "crackle", and "pop" always annoyed me, even in the vinyl days when it didn't seem to bother most people. And I gave-up on playing records completely when I eventually replaced them with CDs. (I still have a turntable for occasionally digitizing a record that isn't available digitally.)

 

[plastic_avatar]

@Steven Hello, fellow Steven with a V.

I did a silly thing.

Since I got the D-6 for $161... and my original budget was up to $300'ish... when a new E50 came up (from the same company in China) for $163 (!!!), I ordered one.

So now I have AKM and ESS dacs coming.

It's for my own learnin', so I can:

1) see if I hear a difference in the squishy subjective ways that are REALLY curious to me, like

2) even though they measure in the excellent category, is there a difference to my ears in how the music presents itself (based on chipset), and

3) does this dac n00b want to go back and talk more about objective/subjective results?

I'm probably a little too excited to compare to verify. It'll be fun, since I'm just learning this part of stereos (as a user). I'll report on it when they get here. I've got an input switcher I'll hook up for some A/B after I read more from the link(s) suggested by

@DVDdoug, and read that phoolery link.

When my Dad somehow scraped enough together to get me a Sharp CD player for Christmas of 86, I was never the same. I plugged in headphones while it was still under the tree.

First CD as a 16 year old? The Moody Blues Greatest Hits. First song? The Voice.

I wore 2 recordings flat as a kid: The Voice on 45 and The Hobbit soundtrack on double LP.

To hear The Voice as my first CD test? Amazing. Couldn't believe it.

Now
I have 4 turntables in my house, and keep talking myself out if selling 3 of them =[ I hardly use them. I bought a big collection of albums last summer. No idea why, really. Other than getting my money back selling part of it =\

i'm trying to match streamed and CD versions as best I can. I'll have something worked out for testing when the dacs get here.

Part of this [overused buzzword incoming] journey is about my system upgrades, but mostly how they sound through the speakers I spent weeks over the past year refreshing, upgrading and/or modding.

Every system change through them is audible. It's nice. And boy am I through with the overdone adjectives people use to try and give validity to what the hear. Jeezus, Mary, Josephus! [dry heaves].

Related/Unrelated

This was an interesting conversation, and they talk about trying to define the subjective/unmeasureable:

 

[Julf]

1) see if I hear a difference in the squishy subjective ways that are REALLY curious to me, like

If you believe there is a difference, you will hear a difference.

 

[plastic_avatar]

If you believe there is a difference, you will hear a difference.

I didn't evaluate/compare on squishy qualities. I kept away from subjective opinions about what I heard.

I mapped out where the sounds came from and where they pointed to.

Because I'm using Polk SDA speakers, the location of each sound was easily, and repeatedly, identifiable.

Across the soundstage, there were differences in the D-6 and E50. Whether from the chips or the software or... I don't know. But the presentation was different.

Here's an example where the differences were minor, but noticeable.

E50 + Parasound pre = black
D-6 + Parasound pre = orange
E50 as pre w/ balanced out = purple

Hotel California, The Eagles, Hell Freezes Over

 

[plastic_avatar]

The Police, Walking In Your Footsteps.

Example where something in the sound field was very different:

 

[plastic_avatar]

And another with subtle, but noticeable differences in placement and direction.

The Beatles, Get Back

 

[plastic_avatar]

I honestly couldn't tell a difference in the quality of sound in my comparisons of material through coax from CD.

The differences were purely spatial and directional. And that was a really interesting (to me) difference. When I did the comparisons, I didn't think there would be any difference in those areas.

The speakers I use:

Polk Audio SDA Speakers: 1987 Review of SDA 1C