Vintage Speakers are back in style

[dlaloum]

A very hard match to make. The panels being very detailed (fast?) with low distortion, the subwoofers not so much.
I ran into the same issue trying to match sub's to my La Scalas, which offered much of the same strengths but added the ability
to go really loud. Ended up with 2 7' tall HSU subs and big amp power.

Heh, the Klipsch and the ESL extremes, meet at the point of trying to match with a Sub....

 

[MattHooper]

Ditto here - tried for years to mate various SW's to my 63's and later 989's.... never sounded coherent...

Did you ever try a dipole subwoofer like the gradient?

To me, that’s the only thing that has matched the character of the dipole panels. It was actually quite amazingly coherent with my 63s. Still the best I’ve ever heard. Just not totally perfect.

But for me, the trade-off of that coherence was that the dipole bass just like the panels had that “ different” type of sonic character then your standard box speaker.

Thus far in my experience, all the dipole speakers have Had an overall quality, especially in the bass that is a bit more ghostly than I prefer. It doesn’t seem to have the same solid palpable impact.

I don’t know if this is something inherent in dipoles, whether I just haven’t heard the “right” dipoles.

 

[DanielT]

Having said that, in this day and age of DSP's, it might be easier to match an ESL to a Sub... I have not tried it in about 15 years, and there has been plenty of progress in that space over the last 15 years.

Set up according to all the rules of the art; correct LP-HP filter, time alignment, correct phase, same dB levels and so on, preferably with EQ for a nice FR, with one or more well-constructed subwoofer/ bass boxes (no huffing and puffing bass ports, reasonably low distortion, high SPL, good ability to move a lot of air and so on) then why wouldn't it be possible to get a good electrostats -subwofer/ bass box integration?

I may have missed something regarding this integration topic? Maybe time for a new thread, if one doesn't already exist, on the subject?

 

[Elgrosso]

Did you ever try a dipole subwoofer like the gradient?

To me, that’s the only thing that has matched the character of the dipole panels. It was actually quite amazingly coherent with my 63s. Still the best I’ve ever heard. Just not totally perfect.

But for me, the trade-off of that coherence was that the dipole bass just like the panels had that “ different” type of sonic character then your standard box speaker.

Thus far in my experience, all the dipole speakers have Had an overall quality, especially in the bass that is a bit more ghostly than I prefer. It doesn’t seem to have the same solid palpable impact.

I don’t know if this is something inherent in dipoles, whether I just haven’t heard the “right” dipoles.

Same feeling here, and many share it, it must be related to the lack of pressure or room gain/disturbances.
The closer I could get to a sort of thump was with near-field H-frames, three 1m in front, a very good compromise but not so practical.
Now I enjoy a fuller thump with my new close system, but I occasionally miss the clarity and precision of the dipole bass.

 

[Sal1950]

Same feeling here, and many share it, it must be related to the lack of pressure or room gain/disturbances.

Is there such a thing as a true deep bass capable dipole subwoofer?
I'm not aware of one though I'm not very tuned into that market.

 

[BigVU's]

A lot of ASR members seem to be pining big ole loudspeakers that wouldn’t test all that well these days.

Big Ole Loudspeakers have style though! Toss some Big Ole VU's in there and its a kegger! I do think some of these oldies would still meet and beat some of the robotronics.

 

[BigVU's]

Well many of them have fairly large homes and can collect those large ole speakers along with classic gear to compliment them.
Before my retirement and move to FL, my home in Chicago allowed me the room to set up a couple classic rigs in the kitchen, bedroom 3, basement, and
garage, I loved to play with some kool ole HiFi toys of my youth. Really miss those days but don't miss answering to an alarm clock.

I am guilty - this thrifty vintage hifi is to make a statement in my living room and my garage and the attic. I really do think the classic vintage speaker being somewhat of an antique has a place now in the formal living area.

 

[BigVU's]

A very hard match to make. The panels being very detailed (fast?) with low distortion, the subwoofers not so much.
I ran into the same issue trying to match sub's to my La Scalas, which offered much of the same strengths but added the ability
to go really loud. Ended up with 2 7' tall HSU subs and big amp power.

7' tall Subs - interesting indeed. I must see these.

 

[hedrick]

I’m not interested in style. But Im listening to a pair of ADS L500 from the 1970s. I’m the original owner. They measure as flat as you can expect in my room. I tried a pair of Paradigm Studio 20, which were considered excellent bookshelves. I think the ADS are more accurate. I don’t have any interest in antique electronics though. I realy like my Powernode 2i. Back in the day I used Cynaco gear.

 

[dlaloum]

Did you ever try a dipole subwoofer like the gradient?

To me, that’s the only thing that has matched the character of the dipole panels. It was actually quite amazingly coherent with my 63s. Still the best I’ve ever heard. Just not totally perfect.

But for me, the trade-off of that coherence was that the dipole bass just like the panels had that “ different” type of sonic character then your standard box speaker.

Thus far in my experience, all the dipole speakers have Had an overall quality, especially in the bass that is a bit more ghostly than I prefer. It doesn’t seem to have the same solid palpable impact.

I don’t know if this is something inherent in dipoles, whether I just haven’t heard the “right” dipoles.

Tried to keep an eye out for one for ages - they were never very common, and even moreso in Australia - I would have had to import one - with all the (high!) transport costs involved...

I agree that all dipoles I have heard have lacked the "thump" that a more traditional speaker can provide.

On the other hand they have kept a delicacy and an accuracy of timbre, that remains rare among traditonal speakers and subs.

I recall auditioning the ML Monoliths, and thinking - that Bass singer, sounds timbrally like a baritone rather than a bass - there was plenty of "meat" to the bass, but it was just ever so slightly wrong....

Whereas listening to a set of ML CLS panels, the timbre on the same recording for the same singer, just sounded right.... less bass, but better bass.

 

[dlaloum]

Is there such a thing as a true deep bass capable dipole subwoofer?
I'm not aware of one though I'm not very tuned into that market.

It's not so much depth, as you can get them digging quite deep - but they seem to lack that "chest thump" effect...

Completely subjective comment... you can hear the depth, even the low pipe organs and such, but it feels like there is a lack of "soundpower" in the room.

Dipole tendency to self cancel at a distance may be the reason why they lack punch, while having penty of depth.

 

[Mart68]

Is there such a thing as a true deep bass capable dipole subwoofer?
I'm not aware of one though I'm not very tuned into that market.

Celestion offered one that claimed 25Hz

Celestion System 6000 loudspeaker system

In the audio field, the British have traditionally thought "small," scoring hits both with their compact loudspeakers and with medium-priced amplifiers. The continued growth of the audiophile speaker market in the US, however, which favors larger loudspeakers, has at the same time stimulated the...

www.stereophile.com

 

[dagfinn]

OP could take a look here for some proper vintage Big Momma speakers

JBL Speaker System

JBL Speaker System

 

[Sal1950]

7' tall Subs - interesting indeed. I must see these.

Here's Dr Hsu carrying one up the stairs somewhere, it was one of his first products after getting his degrees.
Also a photo of my pair I took for my sale when I was getting ready to move to FL.

 

[Snoopy]

Never seen subwoofers like that.
Cool

 

[Elgrosso]

Is there such a thing as a true deep bass capable dipole subwoofer?
I'm not aware of one though I'm not very tuned into that market.

Probably not, or so close it could be like a big headset.

These went down to a strong 30hz with 3x12’’, but only if right in front:

 

[BigVU's]

OP could take a look here for some proper vintage Big Momma speakers

JBL Speaker System

JBL Speaker System

Thanks!!! Nice hook up. I got plenty to research now. Sweet.

 

[BigVU's]

Here's Dr Hsu carrying one up the stairs somewhere, it was one of his first products after getting his degrees.
Also a photo of my pair I took for my sale when I was getting ready to move to FL.

View attachment 448401

WoW. Unicorns are real. That's something. I wonder what they sound like?

 

[Mike Madigan]

I still love my 1979 ADS 810s.

 

[mhardy6647]