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Video Science Review.....thoughts?

tlin

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Not a forum suggestion - just a general query and wasn't sure where to put it.

Does anything similar to ASR's audio-focused Review Index exist for display devices? I know I'd personally love one as we are considering some HT upgrades (including a new projector).

Yes, there would only be value therein if the testing and transparent disclosure of the results was done in a similar manner to what Amir does with all the audio equipment - one can dream, right?

Cheers!
 

bravomail

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Not a forum suggestion - just a general query and wasn't sure where to put it.

Does anything similar to ASR's audio-focused Review Index exist for display devices? I know I'd personally love one as we are considering some HT upgrades (including a new projector).
not for projectors, but for displays - Hardware Unboxed is a good source of reviews.
Then, also, LTT announced in fanfare that they will test "everything" :)
 
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AdamG

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This is the closest to what you are looking for that I am aware: https://www.rtings.com/

I have used their recommendations and review data for many choices, all of which were spot on. Good luck.!
 

pozz

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There's also https://www.flatpanelshd.com/TVdatabase.php Example of a review: https://www.flatpanelshd.com/review.php?subaction=showfull&id=1618550077

Unfortunately, for video, one of the crazy issues is panel variability. The "panel lottery" puts people off.

It also irritates me that even the best TVs represent tradeoffs that you would never find in the best speakers (viewing angle...). You can buy the same speakers used in studios and use them at home. But the TVs used for production can easily cost 30x as much as consumer stuff, are the size of computer monitors, and then are either not compatible (e.g., no HDCP compliance) or do not feature the same kind of automation we're used to for home use (things you wouldn't even think about normally: resolution, aspect ratio, colorspace). /rant

Edit: Typo.
 
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tlin

tlin

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Thanks for the quick replies!

Projector Central - used them for years (sourced my current PJ via them eons ago). That said, they don't maintain quite the same degree of objectivity and data transparency (or easy access to all their data/test results) that ASR does but I do agree they have some value.

I'll check the others out tonight - cheers!
 

Willem

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Interestingly, on the video side there does not seem to be the equivalent of audiophools (or have a missed something). Reviews have measurements and data, and no pseudo science that I am aware of.
 

billyjoebob

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Rtings doesn't do that.

HDTVTest does a yearly DBX test around November. Here's the results of the 2021 TV Shootout (video released in Nov 17). They've been doing this for a few years, and their latest video seems trustworthy for a DBX I think.
Interesting...
 

MZKM

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Unfortunately, for video, one of the crazy issues is panel variability. The "panel lottery" puts people off.
I know for one Samsung model, they tested more than 1 unit, and for one the filters were misaligned and they improved the picture quality by literally dropping the tv from a few inches.

Rtings sadly are likely struggling for cash, they are reviewing blenders now.
 
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sweetchaos

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Rtings just launched laptop reviews a month ago, which I think is going to help them big time (with affiliate $ and paid-memberships), since people LOVE laptops.
 
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617

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This is an interesting suggestion. ASR measures two classes of devices.

For devices whose operation approaches theoretical perfection, we assign a SINAD score indicating how quiet nonlinearities compared to a test signal.

For loudspeakers and to a certain degree headphones, we characterize the conformance of the radiation to a target developed through listening tests.

Which type of scoring makes sense for video displays?

I assume there are color and luminance standards in the film industry. My experience is that hue and value accuracy are far more important to video quality than resolution, for example, but there are many things which impact quality.
 
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tlin

tlin

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This is an interesting suggestion. ASR measures two classes of devices.

For devices whose operation approaches theoretical perfection, we assign a SINAD score indicating how quiet nonlinearities compared to a test signal.

For loudspeakers and to a certain degree headphones, we characterize the conformance of the radiation to a target developed through listening tests.

Which type of scoring makes sense for video displays?

I assume there are color and luminance standards in the film industry. My experience is that hue and value accuracy are far more important to video quality than resolution, for example, but there are many things which impact quality.

For me, and hence this thread, I'm positive some true display device industry experts could suggest testing and standards-adherence pursuits that would be analogous to what ASR does (and clearly achieves). With online advertising and purchase referrals, seems like it'd be a win-win if such a reliable resource was available and ensured the consumers and enthusiasts remain the target audience without undo bias for any particular manufacturer(s). Just thinking about the fact that displays each do their own version of taking an input signal and subsequently creating an output lends itself to much of the same scrutiny placed here on the audio side (noise, consistency, accuracy, buffering, longevity, thresholds, artifacts.....the list goes on and on).

Anyway, I appreciate the contribution. Your note about two classes of devices above is interesting - I hadn't thought of it that way before.

Has anyone ever sat down with Amir and, over a few beers, figured out why he isn't at least using affiliate links for his recommended products? :):):)
 

JJB70

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I think for TVs most people are pretty sensible in using their eyes and not buying into a lot of mysticism and BS.
 

sweetchaos

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I think for TVs most people are pretty sensible in using their eyes and not buying into a lot of mysticism and BS.
I disagree. Most people will believe what they see in stores...that's where the problem lies. :facepalm:

Let me explain...

If I go into my local electronics store (Visions, BestBuy, etc.) and look at their TV's, they're ALL doing this:

1. Playing HDR demo videos from thumb-drives, instead of normal content.

For OLED TVs, like LG, they play lots of dark scenes, where there is an item with colour, but the background is black. This emphasizes how good OLED can display black colours. You'll notice that these aren't very bright either. They never play any scenes with light background, since OLEDs can't render colours with very high brightness.

For non-OLED TVs, like Samsung, they play lots of light scenes, where the background is never black, and always bright. This emphasizes the total brightness that non-OLED TVs have over limited-brightness of OLEDs. Of course, this completely ignores all dark background scenes, which non-OLEDs struggle to produce.

2. They enable modes such as "Vivid Picture Mode", which increases the contrast, brightness, and sharpness to absurd levels.
It makes all colours completely fake, but gives it that impressive image....at least to anyone who doesn't understand what's going on.

Another example, walk into your electronics store and then look at the top performing models such as (LG Oled C1), you'll see how awesome they look. Then compare to the next step down model (say LG Oled B1), and you'll see how horrible it appears.
Why?
Because the salesperson probably set "Vivid" mode for C1 and "Normal" mode for B1.
One setting makes one TV look awesome, and another horrible.
They emphasize the higher model, which of course costs more money.
o_O

Now, you buy the TV and you bring it home. First, you turn it on and the default picture is the "Standard picture mode", which has a normal contrast, brightness and sharpness. Then you think to yourself...."Man this TV sucks. The store demo was so much better."

Congratulations, you've just been fooled. ;)

The state of TV sales these days is so fake.

Our only choice is to educate ourselves before going shopping for which TV looks the best in store...because TVs in stores are optimized to trick you.

Every time I go shopping for a TV, I bring multiple flash-drives (with 4K HDR mixed content) of the scenes that I know.
Then I tell the sales people to turn off "Vivid Picture Mode" and set it to something I know is more accurate (like the "Filmmaker Mode").
Is anyone else doing this besides me?
I haven't seen anyone else.
The funny part is that the sales people all know what I'm doing when I ask them to do this, and even agree with me, saying this is the best approach. :eek:
 
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tlin

tlin

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Some great resources shared here - much appreciated gents! Takeaways from me:

• HDTVTest (YouTube) - 15 projectors, going through his stuff today!

• projectorcentral.com - I've used it intermittently for years although they don't have a consolidated presentation of their measurements (their Awards classification does help filter out good vs. bad although nothing as objective/scientific as what ASR does - honestly, that's what drove me to ask my initial question here)

• FlatPanelsHD - no projectors but great site!

• RTings.com - no projectors but I do like this....and if I ever need to compare blenders, wow!

• cine4home.de - no native English content, skipping this one

• projectiondream.com/en - outdated (no SSL, no reviews since 2016), skipping this one

In the end, HDTVTest and FlatPanelsHD are probably the strongest in their testing and objectivity. While projectors aren't their focus, these are now saved for future TV shopping needs (whenever that happens....). Thanks everyone!
 
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