VHS Hi-Fi: The Mediocre, the Bad and the Crappy

[OsoSolitario]

In its time, VHS Hi-Fi was a revelation. It was far, far better than linear tracks they had used before.

I owned one of the first HiFi-Stereo Panasonics (NV-850) in 1985.. and remember listening to my fisrt Dolby-Stereo movie from a video-club: "The Deer Hunter"... Wow! It was just an amazing experience.. I must say I was used to the crappy mono sound from TV sets in Europe.

 

[ReDFoX]

I did not even know that VHS audio recorders were a thing. Now I know that and that there's a fashion for them in Russia and we have the objective evidence that neither should be. Amazing! Thank you.

There was even Technics SV-P100, basically a PCM processor, integrated into a regular VCR...

 

[ReDFoX]

In its time, VHS Hi-Fi was a revelation. It was far, far better than linear tracks they had used before.

Unfortunately, FM sound on VHS was an add-on, not something that was initially planned. This led to the addition of new heads, instead of using video ones (like 8mm tape formats do) which resulted in less stable tracking and generally worse performance in terms of "error correction"

 

[Curvature]

It would be very interesting to see contemporary measurements of cassette decks and tapes.

 

[Saponetto]

Thanks a lot @ReDFoX for this accurate measurement session.
During those glorious times I was quite fond of this alternative media, so it's a pleasant surprise to see there's some people still tinkering with these tanks.
Oh, I was a Philips addicted !

 

[AudioSceptic]

View attachment 463893View attachment 463894View attachment 463895View attachment 463896
Well, singletone THD measurements pretty much sum up this testing.

After all that’s been said:​

• Panasonic NV-HD750AM: Low noise, linear FR, low THD overall, but has frequency-dependent distortion;
• Panasonic NV-HD620EU: Low-ish noise, linear FR, low distortion regardless of content’s spectrum;
• JVC HR-S7700EU: Mediocre noise performance, huge frequency response nonlinearities, moderately high distortion;
• Philips VR888/35: High noise floor, moderately linear FR, but worst distortion overall.

This concludes our testing.

Final thoughts​

If I’m being honest, I wasn’t happy with these results at all...
Whether it comes down to some internal processing or physical limitations of the format (generator is needed to fill gaps while heads are switching), I don’t know.
But as a listener and consumer, I care more about the result than the method — and the result here isn’t all that impressive, at least for today's standards...

These are all old machines, so how much would head wear play a part in performance?

 

[MCH]

I can perfectly understand the appeal of 3-4 continuous hours of music back in the day with equipment that any house would have anyways.
When it comes to these measurements, I wonder what role can the tape play, how long has TDK discontinued their tape businesses? (It is a question)

Edit: ok, I read they sold their recording media business to imation in 2007 and these discontinued the business and the TDK brand on recording media in 2015. So if not fake, the tape used was at least 10 years old?

 

[ReDFoX]

Hi,

Thanks for this great review

Very interesting test, long time ago >35 years I used a Philips VHS recorder for just that, record Vinyl (and sometimes CD) > VHS tape, (well it did double duty actually) you know, just to try if it was any better than my then cassette deck.
at the time I thought the recordings didn't sound too bad at all

Yeah, VHS Hi-Fi is a step above almost all compact cassette decks!

It would be very interesting to see contemporary measurements of cassette decks and tapes.

This would require creating a test standard because your measured performance will be hugely impacted by the media (tape formula) and recording levels. You'd need to run multiple tests at different levels (especially to test manufacturer's claims about FR)

 

[AudioSceptic]

In its time, VHS Hi-Fi was a revelation. It was far, far better than linear tracks they had used before.

Yes, the linear track was no better than cassette. I wonder how Sony's Betamax recorders compared? I still have an SLHF100UB somewhere...

 

[Curvature]

This would require creating a test standard because your measured performance will be hugely impacted by the media (tape formula) and recording levels. You'd need to run multiple tests at different levels (especially to test manufacturer's claims about FR)

The noise reduction settings as well.

I'm a little sad everyone I know hopped off cassettes so fast. I don't know anyone with tapes or playback gear.

 

[ReDFoX]

These are all old machines, so how much would head wear play a part in performance?

Head wear usually results in increased noise floor (worse S/N), but that's not something I would consider as a factor (unless you're dealing with ex-TV studio machines). I digitize video consumer formats as a hobby and I wasn't able to spot any obvious differences after a drum replacement on my Panasonic SD400.

I can perfectly understand the appeal of 3-4 continuous hours of music back in the day with equipment that any house would have anyways.
When it comes to these measurements, I wonder what role can the tape play, how long has TDK discontinued their tape businesses? (It is a question)

The tape itself shouldn't matter because audio subcarrier is much lower than luma's so the effective bandwidth shouldn't affect Hi-Fi capabilities at all.

 

[mSpot]

When I couldn't be at home to use a cassette deck, I would sometimes use the 6-hour recording time of a VHS Hi-Fi VCR to record a concert broadcast via FM radio.

That's how i used it too sometimes, lots of recording time

I did that as well! Back in those days, there were things on FM radio worth recording (before conglomerates like Clear Channel and iHeart bought all the stations and converted them to generic programming). Besides long recording time, you can program the VCR to auto-record at a certain time and duration. Combine that with being the highest quality home audio recorder available for the average consumer, VHS Hi-Fi was win-win all the way.

 

[DSJR]

Yes, the linear track was no better than cassette. I wonder how Sony's Betamax recorders compared? I still have an SLHF100UB somewhere...

I'd like to thank the OP for this test, fascinating to me, as I still have three Panasonic 'HiFi' VCRs of this era (including a 620 and one a later now top model from the early noughties), a JVC model again from the early noughties and a Sony C40 betamax which is coaxed into operation on occasion (the 'idler driven' fast wind can slip if not 'exercised every so often and it spews tape out on un-threading to eject as the take-up reel slips otherweise).

Back then, it was always Panasonic for me, as the drives seemed to last longer before tape-edge chewing became an issue due to pressure rollers becoming deformed and/or contaminated. Picture quality as viewed on a small screen did seem to get better on the final top-level VHS machines sold in the UK (cut-off was around twenty years ago I seem to recall) but beta was still potentially better.

I'd suggest that a 32" widescreen TV is about as far up in size as these machines would allow and I can well imagine those of you who love huge screens would now find a domestic VCR unwatchable today. I had a full VHS set of a (once) popular UK 'sci-fi' show plus a good selection from other 'cult' shows and had to basically give them away (all replaced on DVD and I ain't going further to Blu-Ray), the money I spent on these tapes as soon as they came out (into the thousands I estimated) evaporating as nobody wanted to pay real money for these tapes, moist only played once or twice before going onto the rack...

One issue I had with HiFi sound recording on these things, is no adjustment for recording level and also, many machines even new, could have a buzz in the background if playing tapes made on another machine. Getting pictures to 'track' was bad enough sometimes, but the sound could be difficult too.

I don't think this was considered a higher fidelity medium for long, as digital recording was making inroads and I don't think DAT was very far away. All my home-recorded VHS tapes were high quality TDK mostly and my surviving ones (after the huge cull of a few years back) still play and wind okay.

 

[AudioSceptic]

I'd like to thank the OP for this test, fascinating to me, as I still have three Panasonic 'HiFi' VCRs of this era (including a 620 and one a later now top model from the early noughties), a JVC model again from the early noughties and a Sony C40 betamax which is coaxed into operation on occasion (the 'idler driven' fast wind can slip if not 'exercised every so often and it spews tape out on un-threading to eject as the take-up reel slips otherweise).

Back then, it was always Panasonic for me, as the drives seemed to last longer before tape-edge chewing became an issue due to pressure rollers becoming deformed and/or contaminated. Picture quality as viewed on a small screen did seem to get better on the final top-level VHS machines sold in the UK (cut-off was around twenty years ago I seem to recall) but beta was still potentially better.

I'd suggest that a 32" widescreen TV is about as far up in size as these machines would allow and I can well imagine those of you who love huge screens would now find a domestic VCR unwatchable today. I had a full VHS set of a (once) popular UK 'sci-fi' show plus a good selection from other 'cult' shows and had to basically give them away (all replaced on DVD and I ain't going further to Blu-Ray), the money I spent on these tapes as soon as they came out (into the thousands I estimated) evaporating as nobody wanted to pay real money for these tapes, moist only played once or twice before going onto the rack...

One issue I had with HiFi sound recording on these things, is no adjustment for recording level and also, many machines even new, could have a buzz in the background if playing tapes made on another machine. Getting pictures to 'track' was bad enough sometimes, but the sound could be difficult too.

I don't think this was considered a higher fidelity medium for long, as digital recording was making inroads and I don't think DAT was very far away. All my home-recorded VHS tapes were high quality TDK mostly and my surviving ones (after the huge cull of a few years back) still play and wind okay.

Drifting off-topic but DAT is nearly 40 years old now <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Audio_Tape>. I never got into that but it must've been so much better than cassette, although it came too late to be a medium for pre-recorded music.

 

[AdrianusG]

Drifting off-topic but DAT is nearly 40 years old now <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Audio_Tape>. I never got into that but it must've been so much better than cassette, although it came too late to be a medium for pre-recorded music.

I had a DAT recorder, a Sony for about 12 years, in the end it didn't record anymore, just playback the tapes that i'd made, i gave it away to some family member, which i regret very much since, because it sounded great and i should have just had it repaired instead.

 

[ReDFoX]

Back then, it was always Panasonic for me, as the drives seemed to last longer before tape-edge chewing became an issue due to pressure rollers becoming deformed and/or contaminated. Picture quality as viewed on a small screen did seem to get better on the final top-level VHS machines sold in the UK (cut-off was around twenty years ago I seem to recall) but beta was still potentially better.

I'd suggest that a 32" widescreen TV is about as far up in size as these machines would allow and I can well imagine those of you who love huge screens would now find a domestic VCR unwatchable today. I had a full VHS set of a (once) popular UK 'sci-fi' show plus a good selection from other 'cult' shows and had to basically give them away (all replaced on DVD and I ain't going further to Blu-Ray), the money I spent on these tapes as soon as they came out (into the thousands I estimated) evaporating as nobody wanted to pay real money for these tapes, moist only played once or twice before going onto the rack...

I love Panasonic's K-mechanisms! I own 5 VCRs with them and the coolest thing is that you can basically swap the entire assembly and leave the original drum. Top of the line HS1000 and even famous HS950 share the same mecha as dirt cheap SD2XX line...
However, VHS has abysmally low horizontal resolution, both luma and chroma (looking at you, SVHS!). Things like vhs decode can help with that, but that's still unacceptable, IMO.

Drifting off-topic but DAT is nearly 40 years old now <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Audio_Tape>. I never got into that but it must've been so much better than cassette, although it came too late to be a medium for pre-recorded music.

AFAIK, DAT was extensively used in recording studios for CD mastering since you have Red Book audio, but on much more convenient (in terms of realtime recording) format.

 

[AudioSceptic]

Head wear usually results in increased noise floor (worse S/N), but that's not something I would consider as a factor (unless you're dealing with ex-TV studio machines). I digitize video consumer formats as a hobby and I wasn't able to spot any obvious differences after a drum replacement on my Panasonic SD400.

The tape itself shouldn't matter because audio subcarrier is much lower than luma's so the effective bandwidth shouldn't affect Hi-Fi capabilities at all.
View attachment 463957

I have to ask: your English is perfect, so have you spent a lot of time outside Россия?

 

[AudioSceptic]

I had a DAT recorder, a Sony for about 12 years, in the end it didn't record anymore, just playback the tapes that i'd made, i gave it away to some family member, which i regret very much since, because it sounded great and i should have just had it repaired instead.

Obvious question: I'd bet that they don't still use it, so could you ask for it back (even if you now use a recorder with SS storage)?

 

[DSJR]

I love Panasonic's K-mechanisms! I own 5 VCRs with them and the coolest thing is that you can basically swap the entire assembly and leave the original drum. Top of the line HS1000 and even famous HS950 share the same mecha as dirt cheap SD2XX line...
However, VHS has abysmally low horizontal resolution, both luma and chroma (looking at you, SVHS!). Things like vhs decode can help with that, but that's still unacceptable, IMO.

AFAIK, DAT was extensively used in recording studios for CD mastering since you have Red Book audio, but on much more convenient (in terms of realtime recording) format.

DAT had one major potential weakness and that was the tapes either degrading, or possibly getting chewed up by a tatty un-maintained drive. I suspect many/most DAT masters had backups made on more durable media.

 

[AdrianusG]

Obvious question: I'd bet that they don't still use it, so could you ask for it back (even if you now use a recorder with SS storage)?

Good Question,

fact of the matter is that with that part of the family i don't have very good contact anymore, no fight(s) or anything, just haven't seen or talked to them for many years,
not even sure if they still have it.