Very Nice Cheap Kit Speakers: HiVi/Swans DIY 2.2A & 3.1

[CptKaos]

I also just built the Swan 3.1a kit with the Sehlin Perfectionist Mod and 1" Sonic Barrier (instead of the foam in the kit) painted the with ExoHyde, very happy with them, powered by a WiiM Ultra + WiiM Vibelink paired with an SVS SB1000Pro

absolutely the best sounding stereo system I have ever owned

 

[Tinker]

Yeah, I also don't like the mid-range flange sitting mounted on top of the surface (similar to the PE C-Note speakers, which I also modified). I used a hacksaw to carefully cut a radius on tweeter flange and used a router to cut a recess in the mdf for the midrange. Will post photos soon; added a red oak 10mil veneer and in the process of sanding it today.

Nice modification. It appeared to me that the tweeter was recessed a little bit behind the dome tweeter. A very subtle time alignment issue possibly? Your recessing the midrange took care of that. I tilt my speakers slightly forward on the stands to correct.

What crossover are you using?

 

[GGroch]

Swan Speaker on Amazon again has a few sets of the DIY 2.2A components, without the cabinets, available, here for $210.
The cabinets are available separately for $110 (link posted above). While $210 is a good bit higher than previously (as is everything), it still is a good value as Parts Express sells (a version of) just the woofers for $232 a pair. I see someone who purchased the cabinets say the set he got smell mildewed.

 

[mlankton]

I really wanted some rosewood clad Divas back when Swan was in their heyday 20 years ago. Like to this day if some NOS ones turned up I would find a way. They were just such a great value for the selling price.
Those speakers stuck with me and when I relocated across the country a year and a half ago, and could initially only have my computer desk set up for sound, I bought a pair of M300s. From the old Klipsch Promedia 2.1 through several pairs of active studio monitors, these Swans are by far the best sound I've ever had at my desk. Generally speaking, and I am not the audio physicist a lot of you are, whenever I've seen Swans measured freq resp charts I thought they looked pretty good, and downright amazing for what they sell for. Whatever my M300s are doing to the frequency response, in my room I really like the sound they produce.
So I just bought two sets of the newish D3.1 MkII that Amazon has coming in probably for early December. They have the same driver complement as the 2.2. I'm going to use them in a 4.1 system in my living room with an 18" PSA sub. I would have paid twice as much to get two pairs of Canton Ergo 620s shipped from Germany, another old unscratched itch and I nearly went that way, so the Swan pricing definitely has an impact.

 

[GGroch]

Let us know how you like them when they arrive. Like many Swan listings, the description is not clear but seems to indicate the front black panel is removable. If it is, it would be interesting to get a closer look at the drivers and perhaps the crossover.

I do not think the two-way D3.1 OG was ever offered in the U.S. but one can find some listed on German and Russian Sites. They are styled like your M300s, but the tweeter looks visually different. It could be just a different facia. Here is a translated link to one in Russian.

 

[Velogeek]

Happy to report the HIVI-Swan 3.1a project is complete - these speakers are dynamic and superior to any bookshelf I've owned, including the Klipsch rp 600m's they're replacing. Powered thru a recapped Sansui 5000a or updated Fisher TA 800 tube receiver (Soulpeak P2 switch lets me choose my weapon), these 3-ways are sonically stunning and pretty darn cool looking. Went with the Sehlin Perfection Mod 4 crossover to elegantly tame the highs. The Sansui is 55wpc and with the new main caps I can barely get the volume past 4 outta 10 in the 20'x 14' living room. The HIVI's are paired with an Infinity PS-8 sub.

As Tinker mentioned, I did not care for the midrange overlap on the tweeter so I recessed the mid and cut a radius in tweeter flange for a flush fit. (see photos). I added a 10mil red oak veneer and hand-cut the radius openings, stained and finished with Danish oil, 2 coats ea..

Prior to final connections I bench-tested with 1 1/2" supplied dampening foam in one and the 1/2" PE Sonic Barrier in the other (adhesive side covered for easy removal). The supplied foam provided a superior overall sound so I stuck with that. Per GGroch's comments above, (my 70+ ears are still functioning pretty well despite what my wife says ) I agree on the "sweet airiness" of the mid/high ends while bass clarity and punch excels on all volume levels IMHO.

 

[CptKaos]

Happy to report the HIVI-Swan 3.1a project is complete - these speakers are dynamic and superior to any bookshelf I've owned, including the Klipsch rp 600m's they're replacing. Powered thru a recapped Sansui 5000a or updated Fisher TA 800 tube receiver (Soulpeak P2 switch lets me choose my weapon), these 3-ways are sonically stunning and pretty darn cool looking. Went with the Sehlin Perfection Mod 4 crossover to elegantly tame the highs. The Sansui is 55wpc and with the new main caps I can barely get the volume past 4 outta 10 in the 20'x 14' living room. The HIVI's are paired with an Infinity PS-8 sub.

As Tinker mentioned, I did not care for the midrange overlap on the tweeter so I recessed the mid and cut a radius in tweeter flange for a flush fit. (see photos). I added a 10mil red oak veneer and hand-cut the radius openings, stained and finished with Danish oil, 2 coats ea..

Prior to final connections I bench-tested with 1 1/2" supplied dampening foam in one and the 1/2" PE Sonic Barrier in the other (adhesive side covered for easy removal). The supplied foam provided a superior overall sound so I stuck with that. Per GGroch's comments above, (my 70+ ears are still functioning pretty well despite what my wife says ) I agree on the "sweet airiness" of the mid/high ends while bass clarity and punch excels on all volume levels IMHO.

congrats, I am loving mine also
if you think they sound good now take them out of that enclosure and let them breath

 

[Velogeek]

Yeah, I'd like to put them out in space but for now there home is on the bookshelves until I negotiate another location with my better half..ha!

 

[Tinker]

Excellent job on the midrange recess! These speakers image as good as any speaker out there but they need open space.
Do your amps get hot sitting in the cabinet? I have a similar set up and ended up putting an 'Aircom' front exhaust fan on top of the amp to get the heat out. It got really hot in there.

 

[D!sco]

I thought I'd share some measurements from the original swans in a new location. The red line is a near perfect triangle with a 30 degree rotation offset. The green line for the couch is double the distance to the speakers, this setup is placement limited and subwoofer limited.The room is an unusual shape as well.You can see how bright the tweeter plays and the overall mid-high treble rise. Luckily this is easy to EQ out.

I've also included the distortion measurements. Not bad. Could also be limited by the ancient DAC and amp I'm using. The individual speakers measure closer to 2-3% distortion vs the 1.5% the pair averages together.

And last is the EQ. Very serious cuts to make the Harman curve. I'm starting to lean towards the Toole curve, as it seems less boomy in my room.

I haven't seen a lot of measurements from the newer 3.1A's. These speakers are good enough that I would consider the same again later if these failed. How does the new stock compare with the upgraded crossover?

Edit: 6 years old, going very strong. This is with the selfish seat set up to take full advantage of the center room’s response. There’s a couch 5 ft behind it.

 

[Tinker]

I thought I'd share some measurements from the original swans in a new location. The red line is a near perfect triangle with a 30 degree rotation offset. The green line for the couch is double the distance to the speakers, this setup is placement limited and subwoofer limited.The room is an unusual shape as well.You can see how bright the tweeter plays and the overall mid-high treble rise. Luckily this is easy to EQ out.
View attachment 491450
I've also included the distortion measurements. Not bad. Could also be limited by the ancient DAC and amp I'm using. The individual speakers measure closer to 2-3% distortion vs the 1.5% the pair averages together.
View attachment 491456
And last is the EQ. Very serious cuts to make the Harman curve. I'm starting to lean towards the Toole curve, as it seems less boomy in my room.
View attachment 491458View attachment 491459

I haven't seen a lot of measurements from the newer 3.1A's. These speakers are good enough that I would consider the same again later if these failed. How does the new stock compare with the upgraded crossover?

What crossover are you using for these measurements? The 'red' line a 'near perfect triangle' doesn't look that bad.

 

[D!sco]

What crossover are you using for these measurements? The 'red' line a 'near perfect triangle' doesn't look that bad.

This is the original, unmodded HiVi 3.1 crossover.

 

[CptKaos]

I thought I'd share some measurements from the original swans in a new location. The red line is a near perfect triangle with a 30 degree rotation offset. The green line for the couch is double the distance to the speakers, this setup is placement limited and subwoofer limited.The room is an unusual shape as well.You can see how bright the tweeter plays and the overall mid-high treble rise. Luckily this is easy to EQ out.
View attachment 491450
I've also included the distortion measurements. Not bad. Could also be limited by the ancient DAC and amp I'm using. The individual speakers measure closer to 2-3% distortion vs the 1.5% the pair averages together.
View attachment 491456
And last is the EQ. Very serious cuts to make the Harman curve. I'm starting to lean towards the Toole curve, as it seems less boomy in my room.
View attachment 491458View attachment 491459

I haven't seen a lot of measurements from the newer 3.1A's. These speakers are good enough that I would consider the same again later if these failed. How does the new stock compare with the upgraded crossover?

cool I just received my miniDSP UMIK-1 microphone and am trying to learn the REW software, mine have the Sehlin Perfectionist Crossover Mod, hopefully I will be able to post the results tommorrow

 

[Velogeek]

Excellent job on the midrange recess! These speakers image as good as any speaker out there but they need open space.
Do your amps get hot sitting in the cabinet? I have a similar set up and ended up putting an 'Aircom' front exhaust fan on top of the amp to get the heat out. It got really hot in there.

Thanks, it was a bit of work create a very shallow recess with a router but it did the trick.

My Sansusi does not get very hot at all but the Fisher TA 800 tube unit certainly does; I made a custom oak enclosure for it with an open top and black metal screen that allows for airflow over the tubes and keeps wires, cords, etc. clear. I make sure to turn it off after using it every time. I hope to come up with a layout that will allow the speakers more open space but for now it's a bit of a challenge.

 

[Tinker]

This is the original, unmodded HiVi 3.1 crossover.

I like it !! Quick story... the thing that sold me on trying these was the review by Zeos. When he listens the first time he exclaims... "These are SO clear sounding! " He also points out the extreme brightness of the tweeter he covers with foam. I liked the idea of a minimalist very clear/clean sound.

I read the modded improvement to the crossover with great interest. So I did add the resistor across the tweeter to tame it down and I did the same recommended modification to the midrange and took a listen. I felt the midrange had lost a bit of it's detail. In the end I removed the modification to the midrange and went back to stock. I like it's clarity and voicing just the way it is with just the tweeter padded down. Listening for years now and I am completely happy. I like the midrange clear/transparent and wouldn't change a thing. To each their own.

I listen to a fair amount of high end speakers and they all seem to lean toward a bright/transparency sound for stunning detail. These Swans do an admirable job and in some cases, even better.

Thanks for posting this. Great info.

 

[Tinker]

cool I just received my miniDSP UMIK-1 microphone and am trying to learn the REW software, mine have the Sehlin Perfectionist Crossover Mod, hopefully I will be able to post the results tommorrow

I'd be very interested in seeing what you come up with.

 

[CptKaos]

I'd be very interested in seeing what you come up with.

my 4-way Swan 3.1-SB1000Pro speakers with Sehlin Perfectionist #4 CO mod measured from my listening position

 

[Tinker]

my 4-way Swan 3.1-SB1000Pro speakers with Sehlin Perfectionist #4 CO mod measured from my listening position
View attachment 491626

Thanks! That looks incredibly flat, especially in the upper region. Thanks for the post.

 

[Velogeek]

my 4-way Swan 3.1-SB1000Pro speakers with Sehlin Perfectionist #4 CO mod measured from my listening position
View attachment 491626

Interesting, that is the mod I used in my setup. I do like the mid/highs frequencies in general but due to the amount of folks who whined about the stock crossover, I went with the Perfection Mod 4, which did receive rave reviews. But overall, I am thrilled with how the HIVI's sound, even without alot of breathing room in my setup due to the bookshelf setup (for now). Thanks for sharing this info.

 

[Tinker]

my 4-way Swan 3.1-SB1000Pro speakers with Sehlin Perfectionist #4 CO mod measured from my listening position
View attachment 491626

Thanks! That looks incredibly flat, especially in the upper region Thanks for the post.

I thought I'd share some measurements from the original swans in a new location. The red line is a near perfect triangle with a 30 degree rotation offset. The green line for the couch is double the distance to the speakers, this setup is placement limited and subwoofer limited.The room is an unusual shape as well.You can see how bright the tweeter plays and the overall mid-high treble rise. Luckily this is easy to EQ out.
View attachment 491450
I've also included the distortion measurements. Not bad. Could also be limited by the ancient DAC and amp I'm using. The individual speakers measure closer to 2-3% distortion vs the 1.5% the pair averages together.
View attachment 491456
And last is the EQ. Very serious cuts to make the Harman curve. I'm starting to lean towards the Toole curve, as it seems less boomy in my room.
View attachment 491458View attachment 491459

I haven't seen a lot of measurements from the newer 3.1A's. These speakers are good enough that I would consider the same again later if these failed. How does the new stock compare with the upgraded crossover?

Edit: 6 years old, going very strong. This is with the selfish seat set up to take full advantage of the center room’s response. There’s a couch 5 ft behind it.
View attachment 491528

FYI... I also do a fair amount of EQ using the 10 band EQ available in Audirvana. I have 2 - 12" dayton subwoofers (sealed) and have always had a problem of getting enough bass without the boominess so I ended up running the subs at 60hz. and a fairly high gain level and run the main speakers full strength.

So, on a whim, I asked Chat GPT what would be the best set up using Audirvana EQ with the Swans and my subwoofer model. The answer surprized me. It said my set-up was wrong!!! It knew the specs of all my equiptment being used. Here's what I ended up with suggested by GPT...

Low shelf... 80hz... +3db gain
High shelf... 140hz... -1.5 gain... Q = 0.8 (GPT said THIS setting was the most important in order to get proper overlap) Also no bass bleed through to the upper end causing distortion.

Here's the interesting part... It said to turn the frequency knob all the way up on the plate amp!! (my plate amp is 180hz) Then adjust the gain/volume knob and phase switch by ear. Don't worry, the bass level is now being controlled by the EQ as it should be. The sub driver is now being used more openly and not restricted to just 60hz and below.

Normally this would be WAY too boomy. However, to my surprize, the bass was tighter than ever! I had to adjust the gain knob down from it's previous position. It sounded excellent with much more headroom.

IF there is a little boominess the +3db setting on the low shelf can be slightly reduced to your preference. (don't touch the frequency control knob on the sub) I'm still at +3db and happy with results. I turn down the gain/volume on the plate amp to control boominess.

One final note... I also ended up adding a bit of additional resolution to the upper mid.
using the standard bell EQ...
2500hz... +1.0 gain... Q = 0.8

I am shocked at how much cleaner, tighter and more refined the bass was. High/mid was clear with no harshness. I would never have thought of this myself. For sure I never would have placed the plate amp frequency up all the way but it brought out a part of the subwoofer I had clearly been missing. Highly recommended!