Versatile speakers for challenging rooms

[Winemaker]

What exactly do I mean by that title?

Usually, the advice goes: "Buy these speakers, place them exactly like this, watch out for the front wall, mind the side walls..."

But what if your only option is putting them inside a bookshelf cubby, or (like in my case) placing them right on top of a sideboard, with absolutely no room for flexibility or alternative placement? What if, despite these limitations, you still want a proper pair of bookshelf speakers that can deliver satisfying sound, imaging, and soundstage without choking on rear ports, boundary effects, or nearby walls?

What would YOU recommend in a price range of €500 to €2,000?

I think a thread like this could help a lot of people, given the size of modern living spaces.

 

[Roland_606]

If you are looking for passive speakers then i would recommend the Guru Audio 8. Very unfussy in their placement and surprisingly low frequency response for a small enclosure. I have their predecessor, the Guru junior which occasionally come up on the marketplace secondhand. They sit on a sideboard close to a back wall as recommended by the manufacturer. 88dB/1W at 1m. 6 or 5 ohm i think.

Alternatively you could opt for active monitors with boundary controls onboard, e.g. the Neumann KH120. Mine are on studio stands in an awkward spot for nearfield critical listening (my work) and casual listening (music between work). I think the wallpaper in the photo is the acoustic scattering type, or 1980’s woodchip. Lots of choices and I am sure you will get lots of recommendations.

 

[levimax]

Cardioid speakers, which are the rage currently, in theory are going to be less sensitive to placement. Real world is going to be cases by case but cardioid is a reasonable place to start.

 

[Winemaker]

The recommendation is a 'yes' for me, but also for many others who have limited space and increasingly smaller homes.To clarify, I'm not looking for active speakers, but passive ones—I already have a preamp and power amp setup that I'm perfectly happy with.

 

[Ropeburn]

The recommendation is a 'yes' for me, but also for many others who have limited space and increasingly smaller homes.To clarify, I'm not looking for active speakers, but passive ones—I already have a preamp and power amp setup that I'm perfectly happy with.

In any case you'll probably want to look at front ported models. Front or back mostly matters insofar as where the port - as a sound source - is located. At the front means there's one speaker depth more distance from port to wall, compared to back ported ones. That alone is significant and can mean the difference between too close to wall (which, again, is mostly relevant relative to port position in room) and therefore boomy, and okay because it's far enough.

Of course EQ will also help a lot here with relieving the worst exaggerations in bass range due to placement. Easiest applied when you can make measurements at listening position(s).

 

[CDMC]

Keep in mind, even with your limited options, setup is still important. Getting the speakers to the front of the credenza and elevating slightly if it doesn’t place them too high to minimize reflections and baffle effects from the credenza will have a big influence on the sound.

 

[eddantes]

Anything that vents down and around - Polk Signature Elite ES20 (has a port dispersion plate on the back) but Elac Debut Reference DBR-62 is probably your best bang for the buck.

 

[Marc v E]

What exactly do I mean by that title?

Usually, the advice goes: "Buy these speakers, place them exactly like this, watch out for the front wall, mind the side walls..."

But what if your only option is putting them inside a bookshelf cubby, or (like in my case) placing them right on top of a sideboard, with absolutely no room for flexibility or alternative placement? What if, despite these limitations, you still want a proper pair of bookshelf speakers that can deliver satisfying sound, imaging, and soundstage without choking on rear ports, boundary effects, or nearby walls?

What would YOU recommend in a price range of €500 to €2,000?

I think a thread like this could help a lot of people, given the size of modern living spaces.

In my experience there's a good reason we usually advice to change physical properties of the room and seating position. It makes the palet where speakers perform their best. Regardless of technology or shape of speakers: placement is key. There is no workaround, although if you throw a lot of money at it, you can mitigate it up to a point with coaxial etc, but a wrongly placed speaker still sounds muffled.

(Imo an analogy for televisions would be: if I place a black glass in front of the tv to hide it, what technology would give me great colours and a sharp picture?)

In the 500-2000 range there are avrs to take care of eq and subs. That will give you flexibilty and an easy start. Wall mounting can help free up space and help sound too. (Lyngdorf is great too to start a dac/eq/amp system.)

But if you mean speaker tech you're talking 8000 euros or more for an average sized room (genelec 8351, dutch&dutch 8c). Not sure if even they would sound good placed inside a bookshelf cubby. Probably not.

However, if you wall mount some Elac dbr62 or Genelec g3/g4 and use an avr to drive them, then you can get great results for around 2000 euros. A sub will make a great upgrade again.

I would suggest rather to enhance it, blend it in, than hide it. Use wooden panels or a media wall, wall mount, use active speakers, keep the number of devices low and show off with what you do have.

Anyway this is my experience. Ymmv.

 

[Winemaker]

What do you guys think of the PMC Prodigy 1? (Adding these to my list while waiting for more recommendations).

 

[staticV3]

Cardioid isn't really an option for passive, so then I think you'd get the "cleanest" room interaction with sealed, controlled directivity speakers like the Ascilab F6Bs.

Not least because a sealed design also limits LFX, which inherently will excite fewer room modes.

Edit:
The PMC is neither sealed, nor controlled directivity from the looks of it.

Additionally, their speakers have tested pretty awfully so far: https://www.spinorama.org/?brand=PMC

So it would not be on my shortlist.

 

[Roland_606]

What do you guys think of the PMC Prodigy 1? (Adding these to my list while waiting for more recommendations).

I couldn’t comment specifically on the Prodigy 1 but i have spent some time demoing the Prodigy 5 in an acoustically treated room. I’d recommend trialling a pair of the P1’s first in your listening space. https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/worst-measuring-loudspeaker.

 

[Mart68]

What do you guys think of the PMC Prodigy 1? (Adding these to my list while waiting for more recommendations).

Had a fairly brief listen to them and subjectively nothing like as bad as the FR measurements suggest

PMC prodigy1 Loudspeaker Lab Report

Lab Report The baby of PMC's prodigy range represents a gentle enough load for the partnering amplifier with a mere 5.0ohm minimum occurring at a high 14kHz and swings in impedance phase of –59°/3.0kHz and +40°/1.47kHz contributing to an 'easy' EPDR of 2.3ohm/6.1kHz. However the big upswing in...

www.hifinews.com

But I would not seriously consider them.

 

[staticV3]

PMC prodigy1 Loudspeaker Lab Report

Lab Report The baby of PMC's prodigy range represents a gentle enough load for the partnering amplifier with a mere 5.0ohm minimum occurring at a high 14kHz and swings in impedance phase of –59°/3.0kHz and +40°/1.47kHz contributing to an 'easy' EPDR of 2.3ohm/6.1kHz. However the big upswing in...

www.hifinews.com

What a train wreck

 

[Mart68]

What a train wreck

I know. I saw that before I listened to them and they really were not bad. It wasn't 'audiophile music' being played, either.

Possibly/probably they could be tripped up with some music, it was not a long session. Or maybe they have some psycho-acoustic profiling going on with that FR? With a tiny speaker you want to deliver the illusion that there's bass and 'scale' and they managed that.

 

[LTig]

[..] But what if your only option is [..] placing them right on top of a sideboard, with absolutely no room for flexibility or alternative placement? What if, despite these limitations, you still want a proper pair of bookshelf speakers that can deliver satisfying sound, imaging, and soundstage without choking on rear ports, boundary effects, or nearby walls?

What would YOU recommend in a price range of €500 to €2,000?

A friend of mine has the same restrictions (WAF) and uses 3 Genelec 8020a placed on top of a high shelf (and a 7060b sub placed right beside the sofa). The Genelec 8000 series speakers are active, but they have a special rubber foot which allows to point them either up or downwards. If a sub is out of question you'll need at least a 8x3x.

Position the speakers (whichever you chose) such that their front matches the front of the sideboard.

 

[Redacted]

Your budget will allow for good bookshelf speakers and a pair of subs. I would not want to recommend specific speakers to anyone though.

Physical constraints over placement in your room (as I think it looks), will have an effect FR and "imaging". The latter is baked into the recording and if speakers are positioned just right, you can perceive a good stereo image, but the image is either there or not in my experience. Most of my friends with amps and speakers in varying price brackets are set up (when I listen to their rigs) have pretty much zero imaging or sound stage (or whatever the trendy term is now) in any part of their listening rooms. They don't seem to notice, love their rigs, and I'm of an age where I know it's best not to comment, so as to stay friends!

 

[Cote Dazur]

with absolutely no room for flexibility or alternative placement? What if, despite these limitations, you still want a proper pair of bookshelf speakers that can deliver satisfying sound, imaging, and soundstage

With those parameters you will never get satisfying sound, imaging and sound stage from no speakers in any room.
Don’t waste your money.
All those things need space to happen.

 

[kemmler3D]

KEF stuff fits the budget (LS50, Q series, etc.) and the coaxial design makes them a bit less fussy about the room due to even verticals. Other good suggestions in the thread also.

 

[levimax]

With those parameters you will never get satisfying sound, imaging and sound stage from no speakers in any room.
Don’t waste your money.
All those things need space to happen.

I don't think it's that bad, with some decent speakers and some basic EQ you can then sit back and let your brain do the rest. The ability to "hear through the room" and enjoy music is underestimated in my experience.

 

[Cote Dazur]

I don't think it's that bad, with some decent speakers and some basic EQ you can then sit back and let your brain do the rest. The ability to "hear through the room" and enjoy music is underestimated in my experience.

Your ability to “hear trough the room” must be vastly superior to mine, good for you.
My experience with speakers close to boundaries compared to (far) away from boundaries makes a huge difference and is key to have imaging and sound stage. Also key, for me, sitting away from boundaries.