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Vandersteen 2C Klippel data by "hardisj"
- Thread starter SPOautos
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Being a faithful reader of Stereophile from the 80's, I once drove over to the nearest super HiFi dealer to hear some Thiels. They had a used pr of V2 also on display.
The salesperson wasnt too keen on my audition music selection. But that was fine, I wasn't impressed with either...in particular the Vandersteens which DID sound disjointed.
The salesperson wasnt too keen on my audition music selection. But that was fine, I wasn't impressed with either...in particular the Vandersteens which DID sound disjointed.
restorer-john
Grand Contributor
And dirty at that
The tweeters are aimed at the eyes, but the MRZ is at the toupee’s.
Seriously - I am having a hard time finding the method to get to a score.
Does anyone know what magic words result in some link that explains it?
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The link provided gave a preference score of 4.4 and 6.2 with a subwoofer. Better than I would have expected really.And dirty at that
The tweeters are aimed at the eyes, but the MRZ is at the toupee’s.
Seriously - I am having a hard time finding the method to get to a score.
Does anyone know what magic words result in some link that explains it?
Yeah but my quandary is that if I could figure out the harmonic distortion contribution, and the frequency response contribution to the Olive score, then I could determine a course of action.
I have heard some speakers lately that were very good sounding and have a higher Olive score, as well as a higher WAF score.
However the 2Cs still sound pretty good, especially with the subwoofer, which removes a lot of the lower <100Hz content.
They are too good to not keep, and too far away to give them to kiddies to consider an upgrade.
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A large part off axis is the 1st order crossovers. Going with steep crossovers will help, how much is hard to say.
Would it help?
It seems like the horizontal spread is not bad, so maybe I don’t understand?
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1st order crossovers by their nature always cause large off-axis lobes if the on axis is anything close to flat. Those off axis lobes will lower the score on the preference rating. Using steep crossovers will eliminate or minimize that which should raise the score and improve the sound of the speaker in room. Now how well that works when the speaker was put together for 1st order crossovers I don't know, but it still should be a step in the right direction. Look at 10:59 in the video. The response off axis is all over the place.
Honestly your speakers have a fair resell value. I'd sell them and get something better. You'll spend a bit of money to change the crossovers.
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Here is the graph for an F208 which is close to what you want.
Look at the 2C it is all over the place like a roller coaster with some lines crossing each other.
Look at the 2C it is all over the place like a roller coaster with some lines crossing each other.
@pierre I am trying to pull down the parametric EQ for the Vandersteen 2C.
But that link did not work.
I did load the PEQs for the Vandersteen VCC-5 tonight.
And I clicked the AVR to use VCC5 voicing, and it sound pretty good.
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Just knocking down the on-axis peaks is usually worthwhile effort. As discussed, you can get crazy with higher-order crossovers, but then why start with this vintage speaker?
here it is: eq
I have owned them for 38 years, and most people that hear them say, “WTF@ How can they sound so good.“
I am also emotionally attached to them, with load of history… if they could talk.
I have the 1B till now it creates the best imaging i ever heard. When using room correction they sound even more balanced. People that hear them are impressed.
For a 40 year old design they are not bad.
Yeah - it’s hard to make a speaker time and phase if the passive crossover does not allow it.
Maybe one can get a way there with Dirac?
And it is easy to straighten out the FR with some EQ.
I forgot what you are running the 1B with?
I have the Lyngdorf AVR/AVP for HT, but I am almost considering their TDAI 1120 or 3400.
For a 40 year old design they are not bad.
Yeah - it’s hard to make a speaker time and phase if the passive crossover does not allow it.
Maybe one can get a way there with Dirac?
And it is easy to straighten out the FR with some EQ.
I forgot what you are running the 1B with?
I have the Lyngdorf AVR/AVP for HT, but I am almost considering their TDAI 1120 or 3400.
NAD C370 - Topping D10 - Mathaudio Room EQ - Lenovo Thinkpad with dockingstation an Win 10. Mathaudo Room EQ correct also phase so i did several measurements on several speaker bit older ones like Elipson 1303, JK acoustics Optima 1 speakers (both colum speakers so comparable with VDS B1) an B&W 602. So you expect that the corrected phase/time alignment using DSP will be corrected an create a better staging/imaging for all of these speakers. It did a bit but the B1 created still an significant better staging/imaging by no means comparable with the other speakers. The positioning of the B1 took me day's to place them correctly for best results if not they sounded average.
I had some discussions here on ASR that with DSP you can correct Phase more easy than as VDS devolved custom made drivers build around first order crossovers an specific speaker alignment. Regarding mine subjective findings i'm not so sure if the current DSP solutions (only) can solve Phase issiues from a listening point of view.
I can't say if other speakers will create the same outcome as the B1 did. For sure some can or surpass the B1 but for me it is impossible to audition all these kind specific speaker brands in my listening room.
As mentioned before many friends of mine (some semi proffesional musicians) that listend to my gear where astound by the staging imaging the Speaker's totally disappear with good recordings.
So for now I'm a happy with mine VDS B1 speakers.
ps. interesting interview with Pauls Wells an John herbert about there VDS speakers.
Musicians As Audiophiles: Paul Wells
Starting with Musicians As Audiophiles subject #1, jazz drummer extraordinaire Billy Drummond, one thing soon became clear: New York City and its environs are a veritable smorgasbord of musicians who value high-end audio authenticity as much as any longtime reader of Stereophile.
www.stereophile.com
Musicians As Audiophiles: John Hébert
As a kid growing up in New Orleans, Louisiana, bassist John Hébert was familiar with old things. Hébert's mom enjoyed taking him and his three siblings to the city's ancient burial grounds, such as St. Greenwood Cemetery & Mausoleum (1852) or Louis Cemetery No.1 (1789). Once inside the...
www.stereophile.com
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