Vanatoo Transparent Zero Speaker Review

[wadec22]

You don't ever measure all possible combinations of shelf filters etc, what you measure is when they are on flat/neutral settings.

I agree with you that it doesn't make sense to measure all settings. I am saying that the other settings may not have the same flaws. Meaning the built in DSP/DIP switches are meant to have flexibility to appeal to a broad taste profile and I have found in practice they do that, with the exception of adding a bunch of bass or being able to play really loud.

 

[wadec22]

Even if that is the case, whats the point?

The point is that they included the flexibility to appeal to a broad audience and again, I feel like in practice they do that, as long as you know what they are in regards to bass and volume (limitations of their physical size).

Most mainstream users would welcome built in DSP, as opposed to a measurement mic and EQ software.

Unfortunately, I think the one thing that they do miss on is that they are meant to be very easy to adjust but I think the DIP switches confuse and are not intuitive.

 

[SIY]

"Flaw" is relative to placement. The DIP switches can do a lot in this respect. And agreed, the major "flaw" in this speaker is the user interface. I have urged them to build an app for control.

 

[QMuse]

I agree with you that it doesn't make sense to measure all settings. I am saying that the other settings may not have the same flaws. Meaning the built in DSP/DIP switches are meant to have flexibility to appeal to a broad taste profile and I have found in practice they do that, with the exception of adding a bunch of bass or being able to play really loud.

Those things are there so you can correct for positioning and/or to adjust tonal balance to your liking. As such they cannot correct nor improve any design flaws.

 

[wadec22]

Those things are there so you can correct for positioning and/or to adjust tonal balance to your liking. As such they cannot correct nor improve any design flaws.

do you consider the resonances at those SPL levels and bass distortion design flaws? Again, I chalk those up to speaker size. if you crank a speaker this size up to 90+ SPL, I would assume cabinet resonance is going to come into play. Same thing with the bass distortion. 86db with no sub and that footprint? of course it distorts.

in all seriousness - is there a speaker out there that stands 8" tall or lower and performs better? I was unable to find one but there a lot of speakers out there.

 

[QMuse]

do you consider the resonances at those SPL levels and bass distortion design flaws? Again, I chalk those up to speaker size. if you crank a speaker this size up to 90+ SPL, I would assume cabinet resonance is going to come into play. Same thing with the bass distortion. 86db with no sub and that footprint? of course it distorts.

in all seriousness - is there a speaker out there that stands 8" tall or lower and performs better? I was unable to find one but there a lot of speakers out there.

These are small dektop speakers. As such I'd say they present good value for the money.

 

[gr-e]

I ran my measurements by the company and it matched theirs that were made prior to sending the sample to me. There are variations in tweeters causing the differences that different people see.

So are they saying that a 5dB bump in HF is normal? Or did they agree that the unit is faulty?

 

[HooStat]

is there a speaker out there that stands 8" tall or lower and performs better?

It is 9" but the Neumann KH80 is a great small speaker. Much more expensive though.

 

[wadec22]

It is 9" but the Neumann KH80 is a great small speaker. Much more expensive though.

Yeah that $....

 

[HooStat]

I don't think it's circular logic because, in this context, I believe "top speakers" means the speakers that obtained the best actual ratings, not the best predicted ratings.

Just one quick response, since it seems that SL is not used in the final model and it doesn't matter. Circular isn't the best word -- I apologize for that. It is a problem though. Imagine that the slope calculated from the top speakers is irrelevant (i.e., not associated with the preference score). But you do what Olive did and compare all speakers relative to this slope and use that as a model input. Since, in this thought experiment, this slope deviation doesn't matter, it should not make it into the final model -- it is just noise. (For example, imagine using the slope of the frequency response curve between 30k and 40k Hz, which shouldn't matter.) However, given that the top speakers will have the smallest deviation from this input, the input will be significant in the model SOLELY because the process of creating the input is associated with the top speakers. This is because the top speakers have a lot of influence in the final model fit (called "leverage" in regression). In short, this approach is just not good statistical practice, which may be why it is not in the final score.

 

[HooStat]

@edechamps I should also say that Loudspeaker Explorer documentation is really great. That is a lot of hard work.

 

[maverickronin]

"Flaw" is relative to placement. The DIP switches can do a lot in this respect. And agreed, the major "flaw" in this speaker is the user interface. I have urged them to build an app for control.

But the existing setup, convoluted as it may be, will still work long after the app disappears from the store.

 

[SIY]

But the existing setup, convoluted as it may be, will still work long after the app disappears from the store.

No reason you can’t have both. And if the app is available as a desktop as well, then its lifetime will be long indeed.

 

[HooStat]

No reason you can’t have both.

software development is expensive and time consuming. just ask Genelec who still can't support Mac Catalina. The price would have to go up to support an app.

 

[ttimer]

No reason you can’t have both. And if the app is available as a desktop as well, then its lifetime will be long indeed.

Instead of a desktop app, better just have a browser interface. Best of all worlds, can also be used with mobiles.

 

[psydave]

Thanks Amir for getting around to testing these. I currently use these for my main TV setup in an apartment. For the price, they provide everything I could ask for in a single, small package. I like how they use a high pass filter to cut low bass, which is useful to not upset neighbors with day to day use, while providing enough bass to make electronic music and movies entertaining. The small size, remote, and setup customizations are great for my use case.

I'm a little disappointed in the high frequency performance from the measurements, but I have to say I have not noticed the issue in practice, although I do not really hear any better or room corrected setups so take that for what you will. I wonder if reducing the treble via the settings a few notches would improve the sound, I'll try it when I am able.

I'm now considering getting a minidsp hd with a mic to do room correction and test the eq suggested in this thread. $300 on top of a $350 set of speakers seems a bit high, but this thread has assured me that the Vanatoo t0's are a good place to start and some eq and room correction would really make them shine.

Overall, I'm very happy with my purchase, and Vanatoo customer support has been very helpful and responsive as well.

 

[maverickronin]

No reason you can’t have both.

If it was free to the manufacturer, then yeah.

And if the app is available as a desktop as well, then its lifetime will be long indeed.

As long as it's not on Mac.

just ask Genelec who still can't support Mac Catalina

 

[SIY]

As long as it's not on Mac.

MAC???? /makes a pentagram, spits, backs away

 

[amirm]

I fail to see how engineering measurements are not scientific. the title of the website would certainly lead any new web surfer reading their first review to believe that was your intention.

When your doctor takes your temperature, no one would refer to that as a scientific test. Same here. We don't want to cheapen the meaning of the word Science by referring everything as that. The moment you use that word, people get pedantic, ask for peer review, publication, etc., etc.

So I prefer that we talk about measurements as measurements and not try to invent a new word and meaning for them to then use to criticize said measurement.

As to the name of the forum, the original intent was to review audio research and science. Measurements were a later addition.

 

[somebodyelse]

Instead of a desktop app, better just have a browser interface. Best of all worlds, can also be used with mobiles.

And linux, and BSD, and... just look at MOTU's AVB devices where there's a web interface plus a well documented API so you can automate things that aren't easy via the web interface. Or Auverdion's Aurora web interface using an ESP32.

Or you can be like Neumann where the app only runs on an iPad.