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Using old speaker enclosures

unmutual

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I have some old Jamo E-370 floorstanders, that could be interesting to reuse for DIY. I am thinking to replace the drivers and crossover. Goal would be to have a more linear frequency response and better power handling. I can do nearfield measurements in REW, and soldering a crossover is not a problem once the design is ready. I am, however, totally new to DIY as far as speakers are concerned. So I am wondering how I can achieve the best possible result, given a budget of say, $200 per speaker for new drivers and crossovers. I assume I would need to measure the internal volume of the speakers? What are some good drivers to look out for (soundimports.eu would be my source)?

Jamo E370​


140W/200W (rms/peak).

System 2½ Way Bassreflex
Woofer 8" /165 (inch/mm) x2
Impedance 8 (Ohm)

Total volume 60.5 (liters)
K900 x L240 x S280 mm.
 
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8" woofer is too large for good directivity matching with a 1" tweeter. My advice is build new cabinets, add a 4" mid-range. Reuse the stock 8" woofers for bass and the 1" tweeter.

Faital 4FE32-8 is a relatively cheap driver and performs well.


Near-field measurements will not suffice, you need spinorama data for proper crossover design. Distance should be 2x your largest baffle dimension, and time gated to remove reflections.


 
I have some old Jamo E-370 floorstanders, that could be interesting to reuse for DIY. I am thinking to replace the drivers and crossover. Goal would be to have a more linear frequency response and better power handling. I can do nearfield measurements in REW, and soldering a crossover is not a problem once the design is ready. I am, however, totally new to DIY as far as speakers are concerned. So I am wondering how I can achieve the best possible result, given a budget of say, $200 per speaker for new drivers and crossovers. I assume I would need to measure the internal volume of the speakers? What are some good drivers to look out for (soundimports.eu would be my source)?

Jamo E370​


140W/200W (rms/peak).

System 2½ Way Bassreflex
Woofer 8" /165 (inch/mm) x2
Impedance 8 (Ohm)

Total volume 60.5 (liters)
K900 x L240 x S280 mm.
Nearfield measurements can only indicate some of the speakers' performance.
Given you're starting with no DIY experience, I'd suggest doing more sophisticated measurements to get the full picture of the original parts. From that, you can choose to replace parts or, more feasibly, adjust the crossover to achieve response linearity and also power handling.
Learning about crossovers is pretty complicated on its own.
 
I have some old Jamo E-370 floorstanders, that could be interesting to reuse for DIY. I am thinking to replace the drivers and crossover. Goal would be to have a more linear frequency response and better power handling. I can do nearfield measurements in REW, and soldering a crossover is not a problem once the design is ready. I am, however, totally new to DIY as far as speakers are concerned. So I am wondering how I can achieve the best possible result, given a budget of say, $200 per speaker for new drivers and crossovers. I assume I would need to measure the internal volume of the speakers? What are some good drivers to look out for (soundimports.eu would be my source)?

Jamo E370​


140W/200W (rms/peak).

System 2½ Way Bassreflex
Woofer 8" /165 (inch/mm) x2
Impedance 8 (Ohm)

Total volume 60.5 (liters)
K900 x L240 x S280 mm.
The net volume should be around 40 liters, depending on the internal bracing and material thickness.

Personally, I would advise against it for several reasons.
- 2.5-way designs are a cost-cutting measure by the manufacturer and otherwise only have disadvantages, which is why they are extremely rare in the DIY market.
- The enclosure is cheaply constructed, made of cheap materials, too thin, and even with a lot of effort and expensive materials for damping and bracing, it's inferior to any good, self-built enclosure.
- Too small a budget, especially for good crossover components like inductors.
- Your first DIY speaker as a completely self-designed project using an existing, low-quality enclosure, without any experience—wow.

If you're doing this to save money, then it's absolutely the wrong approach. The likelihood of you wasting your money is very high.

If you're looking for good speakers, then look for a used pair of Heco Aurora 700s, which you can find for around €400 if you're lucky. They perform many classes above the Jamos and are hard to beat in terms of price/performance. The cabinet is very sturdily built and well-braced, and equipped with good crossover components and drivers. Even at the normal street price, they are above average.
The Aurora 700s weigh about twice as much as the Jamos.

For something with comparable sound quality, you would have to invest at least €700-800 as a DIY speaker builder for drivers, crossover components, wood, and accessories, assuming you already have a complete design.

If you're really into the DIY hobby, then I would recommend starting with a plan/kit and building a good cabinet. Because with a cheap and boomy cabinet, even the best drivers, crossovers, and design are worthless.
 
If you're really into the DIY hobby, then I would recommend starting with a plan/kit and building a good cabinet. Because with a cheap and boomy cabinet, even the best drivers, crossovers, and design are worthless.
If our OP is really into DIY and wants to learn something, I'd like to offer a different perspective on that: building a plan/kit of someone else's design does not teach them how to analyze the parts they have on hand (which is a foundational skill of speaker design), or how to make the engineering choices needed to design a good speaker, like how to weigh tradeoffs, or how to select a crossover frequency and slope.

Yes, failure can happen. But it's very unlikely to be absolute failure, and something can always be learned from it. And knowing that failure can happen can motivate a person to make economical choices.

As far as the cabinets go, although I don't disagree that a cabinet can adversely affect a speaker's performance, but I'm not of the opinion that the OP's cabinets are unredeemable. And finding out their level of usability is part of the process of learning how to make design choices and weighing the tradeoffs.

But that's all if the OP is really into DIY or wants to learn something. If they just want a nice pair of speakers or to just build something, I completely agree that the used market or a kit is a much better choice.
 
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If our OP is really into DIY and wants to learn something, I'd like to offer a different perspective on that: building a plan/kit of someone else's design does not teach them how to analyze the parts they have on hand (which is a foundational skill of speaker design), or how to make the engineering choices needed to design a good speaker, like how to weigh tradeoffs, or how to select a crossover frequency and slope.

Yes, failure can happen. But it's very unlikely to be absolute failure, and something can always be learned from it. And knowing that failure can happen can motivate a person to make economical choices.

As far as the cabinets go, although I don't disagree that a cabinet can adversely affect a speaker's performance, but I'm not of the opinion that the OP's cabinets are unredeemable. And finding out their level of usability is part of the process of learning how to make design choices and weighing the tradeoffs.

But that's all if the OP is really into DIY or wants to learn something. If they just want a nice pair of speakers or to just build something, I completely agree that the used market or a kit is a much better choice.
I speak from 40 years of experience in loudspeaker development, both in the professional DIY sector and with other developers, manufacturers, and driver manufacturers.
I've also overseen DIY projects on numerous occasions.

And even though today's technology makes loudspeaker development easier, projects like the one the thread starter describes almost always go wrong.
I don't mean that you can't listen to music with such a loudspeaker, but rather that these speakers would be blown out of the water by, say, a pair of Elac DBR62s. And those only cost €400.

It can even happen that the result is worse than the original product.

And that's precisely what I wanted to warn him about and offer some food for thought, especially regarding these enclosures, because I know how much of a difference they make. Above all, ordinary users are completely unaware of the inferior materials used to make these enclosures, which cost less than €20 to manufacture (not just the materials, but the entire production process). The material is usually not MDF, which also comes in very low-grade versions, but rather the cheapest and thinnest particleboard, which has less than a quarter or a fifth of the strength of an 18 or 19mm MDF board. The cheapest IKEA furniture is of much better quality.

And regarding your first paragraph, I completely disagree.
There are thousands of DIY speaker plans and kits available worldwide. How could he, especially at the beginning, learn more effectively and quickly than by looking at, studying, and analyzing them? He can see how the enclosures are constructed and dimensioned, which drivers were chosen, how the frequency responses match up, how different crossovers are designed and how they can lead to different results even with the same drivers, assembly instructions and notes on what didn't work, experience reports, and speaker descriptions from developers and builders. And much more besides.

In the past, I've learned at least as much from the mistakes and successes of others in such projects as from my own experiences, and that's still true.

And one of the most important, and by far one of the most difficult, aspects is selecting compatible drivers. The potential result hinges on this, long before anything else. With an existing enclosure and perhaps even pre-existing cutouts, this becomes many times more difficult.

If @unmutual is aware of all this and wants to undertake the project, then that's his decision, of course.
But I think it's important to consider all sides, including the less appealing ones, because there are reports in this forum, as well as in others, from people who have spectacularly failed even with simpler DIY speaker projects.

And no matter how easy it has become to take measurements, only a fraction of the speakers on the market are good, and a much smaller fraction are outstanding. By far the largest fraction is... Mediocre to terrible. Seems to be not so easy, even for manufacturers.
 
I'm not going to discourage you from "experimenting". It can be fun and satisfying. But you might want to consider carefully before any irreversible changes unless you are 100% sure that you don't want to keep the speakers as-is. Modifications will also reduce the resale value (even if they are "improvements") but they might not sell for that much anyway...

And you might want to do one thing at a time, depending on where you think the weaknesses are. You didn't say what you don't like or what you want to improve. Maybe you can just play-around with the crossover or replace the tweeter, etc. Or maybe add a little internal bracing or stuffing. If you work on one speaker at a time you can A/B compare.

If you just want to use the cabinet, I say "go for it"! You're stuck with the volume/size but other than that, the main thing is stiffness and it can be braced-stiffened internally.

I assume I would need to measure the internal volume of the speakers? What are some good drivers to look out for (soundimports.eu would be my source)?
Yes. Cabinet volume, speaker (woofer) characteristics, and port dimensions all "interact". You'll probably have to modify or eliminate the port. Get some speaker design software (WinISD is free) and plug-in the Thiele-Small parameters for woofers you are considering. That will help you to optimize the port (or it will tell you that sealed is better) and it will predict performance. (WinISD only helps with the woofer/cabinet. This particular application doesn't help with the crossover or other drivers or overall design.)

I've build a few speakers over the years and I wouldn't be afraid to modify a "cheap" speaker. I replaced the woofers in a pair of "cheap no-name speakers" with rotted woofer surrounds. These aren't my main speakers and I didn't bother with software or calculations... They were unusable and now they work!
 
@unmutual
I might have an approach for you that would be cheaper and relatively easy to implement.

Just make it a 3-way speaker.
First, measure the two large drivers; they're about 180mm in diameter up to the edge of the rubber surround.
Then, as dedicated bass drivers up to about 300 Hz, they can be connected either in parallel or in series.

On top of the enclosure, you'd mount a cube of about 12x12x12cm - 15x15x15cm as a sealed midrange enclosure with a 10cm midrange driver.
The advantage of this solution, besides the low cost, would be the small distance between the midrange and bass drivers, with the tweeter in between.
I would continue using the tweeter for now, but there are some very good tweeters that would fit later.

You could also install the midrange driver in place of the tweeter and mount the tweeter on top, as some manufacturers do.

For the crossover, I would advise you to switch directly to an active DSP solution with separate amplifiers, using DSP software on a PC, Raspberry Pi, or Raspberry Pi Pico.
Much simpler, faster, more powerful, and cheaper to develop.
 
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And even though today's technology makes loudspeaker development easier, projects like the one the thread starter describes almost always go wrong.
I don't mean that you can't listen to music with such a loudspeaker, but rather that these speakers would be blown out of the water by, say, a pair of Elac DBR62s. And those only cost €400.
It can even happen that the result is worse than the original product.
I agree, and and it could be discovered that the existing speaker's mediocre or poor sound quality is already as good as it can ever be. That's why I suggested it as a learning experience for someone who was really into learning and DIY, not as a rout for excellent sound.
And regarding your first paragraph, I completely disagree.
There are thousands of DIY speaker plans and kits available worldwide. How could he, especially at the beginning, learn more effectively and quickly than by looking at, studying, and analyzing them? He can see how the enclosures are constructed and dimensioned, which drivers were chosen, how the frequency responses match up, how different crossovers are designed and how they can lead to different results even with the same drivers, assembly instructions and notes on what didn't work, experience reports, and speaker descriptions from developers and builders. And much more besides.
You can learn much from studying and analyzing existing designs, but I was attempting to make the point that to truly learn something, a person needs to get hands on. I wrote it assuming that a person who really wanted to learn would continue studying the topic, but wanted to emphasize that academic study will only take them so far. For example, consider the following quotations from you:
If you're doing this to save money, then it's absolutely the wrong approach. The likelihood of you wasting your money is very high.
Because with a cheap and boomy cabinet, even the best drivers, crossovers, and design are worthless.
And that's precisely what I wanted to warn him about and offer some food for thought, especially regarding these enclosures, because I know how much of a difference they make.
And one of the most important, and by far one of the most difficult, aspects is selecting compatible drivers. The potential result hinges on this, long before anything else. With an existing enclosure and perhaps even pre-existing cutouts, this becomes many times more difficult.
You have clearly spent a lot of time of time actually building, designing, and listening in addition to studying, but would what you say in those quotations carry the same weight if all you had ever done was to study other people's plans and kits? Everyone has to start somewhere, and building or studying a kit is fine for that, but hopefully you agree that to really learn, a person will need to go beyond just studying what other people have done and start doing things themselves too.

And to that end, I really liked your suggestion of an active DSP solution, it makes it so much easier on a beginner (or not so beginner) to prototype and hear what changes sound like.
 
I'll throw out another potential option to consider to @unmutual : remove the existing tweeter and replacing the top woofer with a 8" waveguide or horn. That will make matching the directivity of the existing woofer easier and should keep the crossover simple. Matching the cutout may be hard with an off the shelf 8", but if you can 3D print a waveguide, a slightly larger "freestanding" one could be a solution.
 
Thanks for all the advice and suggestions, to all of you!

I am beginning to doubt if my initial idea is a worthwhile undertaking. I am interested in getting into DIY speaker building, but perhaps better to start with a smaller project, such as this one?
 
Are you interested in just the building part or the desing part, too? i.e. figuring out how to set the objectives, how to select the drivers, baffle shape, box size, power needs, select crossover points, simulate driver/box response, etc? Making decisions on how the speaker will be. Thinking the making process through.

FWIW, here is an example of my first project, similar to your idea - conversion of a passive 2-way into an active 3-way, with a new baffle, new drivers and reinforced box. but most importantly, design learning. https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/3-way-to-active-hypex-fa253-learning-project.421061/
That project was a success.

I am now completing my second project which is design/build from scratch and also at early design stages of a third project.

For me the most enjoyable part is the design. And the most difficult is the box building.
 
Jamo E370, Original price 100 euros,
60.5 liter boxes
..weighing 12.5 kilos. Probably built with thin chipboard. Resonances here and there, probably port noise, cheapest woofers, tweeters and simplest crossover (I'll eat my hat if that's not the case). Seriously, is that something to spend money on?

@unmutual unscrew the woofers and tweeters. Measure the drivers with a multimeter. Do they measure the same? If not, skip those speakers.

Check how the boxes look inside. What about bracing?
 
Account under review. Thread locked for now.
 
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