Have any of you attempted to use a house curve in REW to try to partially compensate for hearing loss at higher frequencies with regular speakers (not headphones)? I have a relatively recent hearing test showing loss at higher frequencies. How much of a boost would be safe before you risk damaging tweeters?
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Using house curves to compensate for hearing loss
- Thread starter beren777
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adc
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Keep it simple. This is a solved problem. Just switch to Grado headphones and Klipsch speakers.
I've wondered this for years. I'm 59 now. I've thought about this ever since my dad hit about my age and we found out about his normal male hearing loss.
I've never read any testing, but I've done informal testing myself...and it doesn't seem to work.
There is more to hearing (but I'm not the one who can explain it) than just the hairs in your cochlea of the inner ear. There's the whole way the brain perceives the sound as well.
Think about it...you can have a 50 yr old with 10-20db loss of sensitivity at high frequencies, yet they will say that everything sounds normal, the same way it always has. But you know that if you took a stereo system and introduced the same roll-off, it would sound drastically different.
Therefore, there must be a compensating mechanism in the brain that sort of makes you think you are hearing fine even though you are not. So, if you boost the treble at the same curve you have your hearing loss, but the brain doesn't turn off its compensation (however it does it), it just won't sound natural. At least that's what happened when I tried the experiment.
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Hmm....not so sure about that. But then again, you're factual understanding of this may be better than my past recollection of what I learned.
The high-frequency hearing loss is sort of just like turning the treble control down.
When they talk about "threshold", it's not like something different happens at that threshold. It just means that below that level you can't hear the sound anymore. Above it, you can.
Like, let's say a jet plane is passing overhead...as the plane gets further and further away, it's sound gets softer and softer, until, at some point, it hits the threshold of hearing it, and you can't hear it anymore.
Hope I made some sense trying to explain this.
Count Arthur
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Eat more cheese: https://www.houseofhearing.co.uk/news/eating-cheese-help-prevent-hearing-loss
Just not that crappy, fake yellow chease flavoured stuff you get in the US.
Just not that crappy, fake yellow chease flavoured stuff you get in the US.
Yes, I tried it here:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/hearing-eq.9632/
Using a modified house curve might be a better option than using a simple EQ process.
It seems that the loss in the 2-4khz region is most important as this modified the way you hear. Above 8-10khz you are missing stuff that might not matter, and the loss exceeds easily 20-40db at 12-14khz which you can not Eq back anyway.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/hearing-eq.9632/
Using a modified house curve might be a better option than using a simple EQ process.
It seems that the loss in the 2-4khz region is most important as this modified the way you hear. Above 8-10khz you are missing stuff that might not matter, and the loss exceeds easily 20-40db at 12-14khz which you can not Eq back anyway.
No.
In my case, if I can't hear it, I really can't hear it. Very sharp cutoff.
What works for me:
I try to tune the in-room playback to the source.
Haven't retuned for a while, and the room changed a little, but here's where it sits tonight with what I'm listening to at the moment:
In-room peak RTA vs source peak RTA - a CD:
The in-room is via a UMIK-1 presently occupying the listening position, with stereo playback, and the source trace is the digits from the CD player (as transport) with the stereo mashed into mono.
As it happens onscreen - next CD
I'll have to retune it after my 4th of July Holiday in Texas on Lake Something southeast of Corsicana... and I'd better do my tax return, too.
It's a living hell being retired, there's just not enough time to get anything done.
In my case, if I can't hear it, I really can't hear it. Very sharp cutoff.
What works for me:
I try to tune the in-room playback to the source.
Haven't retuned for a while, and the room changed a little, but here's where it sits tonight with what I'm listening to at the moment:
In-room peak RTA vs source peak RTA - a CD:
The in-room is via a UMIK-1 presently occupying the listening position, with stereo playback, and the source trace is the digits from the CD player (as transport) with the stereo mashed into mono.
As it happens onscreen - next CD
I'll have to retune it after my 4th of July Holiday in Texas on Lake Something southeast of Corsicana... and I'd better do my tax return, too.
It's a living hell being retired, there's just not enough time to get anything done.
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I looked for some scientific background on this:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4417023/
It has a graph showing the change in equal loudness curves when having hearing loss.
Conclusion: the most change is in the lower levels and much less at high SPLs.
So if you want to correct for this it has to be level dependent.
ELCs for (A) 0, (B) 20, (C) 40, and (D) 60 dB HL constructed from CLS data. Each panel includes ELCs for 20 to 100 phons, in 10-phon steps.
Somehow, the above graphic doesn't seem to represent what I do or don't perceive.
It is, however, accurate. As you have more and more hearing impairment (unless it's mechanical as opposed to neurological), the SPL difference between "can't hear" and "loud" gets smaller. So in order to go back to the original sensation, you need some seriously level-dependent adjustment, and that has to be done with variable frequency response as well as overall gain to get it right. It requires individual training.
My perception of my loss - HF brickwall, and not very high.
Below that, not having any noticable problem.
I don't care to be professionally tested at this late date because I don't want to skew my perception, by introducing that bias.
It kept me out of the Army in 1971. --- I don't wanna get drafted
But swept tone, music, whatever, HF brickwall and nothing noted below.
Age 8 discovered - dad could hear the LP test sweep much farther than mother or myself.
I don't need the TV loud, when listening with Audio Buddy, no arguments over levels.
Below that, not having any noticable problem.
I don't care to be professionally tested at this late date because I don't want to skew my perception, by introducing that bias.
It kept me out of the Army in 1971. --- I don't wanna get drafted
But swept tone, music, whatever, HF brickwall and nothing noted below.
Age 8 discovered - dad could hear the LP test sweep much farther than mother or myself.
I don't need the TV loud, when listening with Audio Buddy, no arguments over levels.
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Hm. HF brickwall, could be quite a few things. You can't hear stuff at any level above some frequency?
Not being a doctor I should not do a diagnosis. The curves above show what happens when you have reduced sensation. No sensation is no sensation.
Not being a doctor I should not do a diagnosis. The curves above show what happens when you have reduced sensation. No sensation is no sensation.
That seems to be the case.
I measure stuff with REW and the old UMIK-1, and don't see any low frequency problems - I hear the bass and mids like the "Threshold of Hearing" data says I should (amateur observation, of course), above that, zip, at any level.
I ran a PA in 1982. We didn't have a feedback preventer. The singer would give me a little hand signal when there was a squeal up high, that I'd have to figure out real quick with the meters.
I probably wouldn't have bought much of the stuff in my sig if I was deficient enjoying the tunes.
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Thanks a lot. This is important works as simply finding threshold hearing is not enough , i.e. the level when you start hearing. As music is enjoyed between 70-90 dB, one needs to translate these threshold hearing into real live loudness values. As in most medical work, the frequency is only tested to 8khz. It is interesting that the sensitivity mostly increases above 7khz again. As said, interesting...
By 15kHz that turns around again and goes up fast (i.e. to less sensitive), there is a column resonance in the ear canal that helps for a little bit, then the threshold goes up fast.
It's not wise, it's going to mangle the driver. It should reject such requests
There's also the issue of air transmission, etc. Remember, at 20C 50% humidity, high frequencies do get a bit sucked away.http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-air.htm can help out. Depends on how big the place is.
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Paperdragons
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