Using an Accuphase E-202 in today's age. Am I missing something?

[aamwgm]

I leave the question of audibility levels regarding distortion aside (check the threads I linked above in #36). What can be annoying with old vintage amplifiers/receivers, however, is mechanically humming transformers. A hum that is drowned out when the music is turned up, but it can still be annoying for some to hear that sound when music is not playing.

Yeah, I've heard this hum in other older amplifiers. My E-202 however, doesn't suffer from this at all. There's just a very faint hum if you hold your ears to the amplifier, and that too is very, very faint.
These units were built up to incredible standards.

 

[DanielT]

So it's the market, supply and demand and all that.

A little OT but if we're on the subject of vintage HiFi and the pricing of that stuff. Check out the video below, starting at 2:16. Hell, a pair of JBL Hartsfield's:

, ....restored to original condition , according to Skylab Audio its market value is now between $30,000-$50,000.

I wonder if Skylab Audio means restored with original speaker drivers? Even in mint original condition, with an impeccable surface finish and so on, it's a hefty bundle of money.

Most bang for the bucks, if we're talking about corner speakers, for a twentieth the price of a pair of JBL Hartsfield's you could DIY build a pair of killer corner speakers, which in every conceivable way (with modern speaker drivers, data calculated crossover, modern...and so on everything modern) would completely blow the socks off a pair of JBL Hartsfield's (if they had restored original drivers/crossover). Blow your socks off in terms of sound quality that is.
(I will leave aside the question of surface finish and speaker DIY vs. original JBL in this case).

But then if these DIY corner speakers were to be sold, you wouldn't even be able to get back half of what they cost to build. A pair of JBL Hartsfield's on the other hand, they might even increase in price in the future.

 

[DanielT]

Yeah, I've heard this hum in other older amplifiers. My E-202 however, doesn't suffer from this at all. There's just a very faint hum if you hold your ears to the amplifier, and that too is very, very faint.
These units were built up to incredible standards.

Nice, that you don't have that humming annoyance.

 

[aamwgm]

, ....restored to original condition , according to Skylab Audio its market value is now between $30,000-$50,000.

That's insane.
I love my vintage gear, but not that much.

Nice, that you don't have that humming annoyance.

In fact, the only thing that worries me about the E-202 is longevity. At times I worry about safety as well.

 

[Sal1950]

My E-202 however, doesn't suffer from this at all. There's just a very faint hum if you hold your ears to the amplifier, and that too is very, very faint.

That could very likely be normal transformer hum, just a soft natural mechanical noise they make with current passing thru it and very possibly it's been making the noise since new. Nothing to be concerned about.

 

[Sal1950]

Most bang for the bucks, if we're talking about corner speakers, for a twentieth the price of a pair of JBL Hartsfield's you could DIY build a pair of killer corner speakers, which in every conceivable way (with modern speaker drivers, data calculated crossover, modern...and so on everything modern) would completely blow the socks off a pair of JBL Hartsfield's (if they had restored original drivers/crossover). Blow your socks off in terms of sound quality that is.

I have no idea what either speaker could offer in the way of sound quality, never heard either.
OTOH, A brand new pair of Klipschorns could also offer some "blow your socks off sound quality" along with some TOTL wood finishing.
I'm looking forward to hearing the new active crossover versions just recently released. There's always been a big window available there which I'd love to hear. Another idea I've had for years but never the room to try was to separate the tweeter/mid horns from the bass horn, placing the top section out in the room for best imaging while placing the bass horn cabinet where it would couple to the room best as possible.

 

[DanielT]

I have no idea what either speaker could offer in the way of sound quality, never heard either.
OTOH, A brand new pair of Klipschorns could also offer some "blow your socks off sound quality" along with some TOTL wood finishing.
I'm looking forward to hearing the new active crossover versions just recently released. There's always been a big window available there which I'd love to hear. Another idea I've had for years but never the room to try was to separate the tweeter/mid horns from the bass horn, placing the top section out in the room for best imaging while placing the bass horn cabinet where it would couple to the room best as possible.

New Klipschorn, I can imagine that.

Original JBL Hartsfield apparently played down to 35 Hz. Check out how brutally big they are:


With that box volume you can easily squeeze in double 18 inch bass drivers. No problem with the right type of 18 bass drivers down to 20 Hz then. Plus compare SPL, distortion levels and so on.On the other hand, buyers of JBL Hartsfield probably don't stare at such factors/ aspects. There are other things that are decisive. Note nothing wrong with that, people can buy what they want, collect what they want, have whatever hobby they want and so on.

 

[DanielT]

At times I worry about safety as well.

Do you mean safety in general regarding the amplifier? Do you mean serious incidents due to it such as fire or electric shock?

I would have first looked into what electronics usually cause fires in homes:

5 common causes of electrical fires

Electrical fires caused an estimated 295 deaths, 900 injuries and over $1.2 billion in property loss in one year alone

www.firerescue1.com

Edit:
It might be a good idea to have an electrician check the condition of the electrical system/wiring if it's old.

Our local electrician replaced the old fuse box with a new one, rewired the wiring in the basement and installed some new electrical outlets in the summer house the year before last. It was about time to do it. Things wear out.

 

[aamwgm]

Do you mean safety in general regarding the amplifier? Do you mean serious incidents due to it such as fire or electric shock?

Yes: shorts (leading to a fire) and shocks. While I’ve visually inspected the amplifier for obvious loose connections or worn out wires, visual inspection can only do so much.

This is one challenge a more modern amplifier won’t pose.

 

[Sal1950]

The Doors,
Come on baby light my fire. LOL

 

[aamwgm]

The Doors,
Come on baby light my fire. LOL

Ouch. That hits hard, haha.

 

[DanielT]

Yes: shorts (leading to a fire) and shocks. While I’ve visually inspected the amplifier for obvious loose connections or worn out wires, visual inspection can only do so much.

This is one challenge a more modern amplifier won’t pose.

In that case, with that done, if I were you I wouldn't worry about the safety aspect any more. But note I'm no expert.

What you did is the same thing I did when I bought old amplifiers. Plus I made sure they weren't full of dust before I put them on. But you've already checked yours so the dust aspect is nothing to worry about either.

A general overhaul by a professional repairman is not a stupid thing to do on a half-century old electronic gadget, though. But we've already addressed that in the thread.

 

[aamwgm]

A general overhaul by a professional repairman is not a stupid thing to do on a half-century old electronic gadget, though. But we've already addressed that in the thread.

Indeed, and if I do find a trustworthy technician, I wouldn't hesitate to have it renewed (within reasonable budget, ofc).

The other drawback, as noted earlier in this thread, is also that while the E-202 was built to very high standards, it is still no match for modern day amplifiers in pure numbers: THD, damping factor, etcl. It also lacks the modern amenities: eg. a E-350 will come with a remote control, won't pop when turning off, etc.

I think as @amirm also often suggests, I'd also prefer the fully balanced implementation of the E-350. I am using the Scarlett Solo (3rd gen) with balanced output, which can also eliminate noise further and give me peace of mind.

I'll continue to listen to it, I think, until an appealing deal comes along.

My E-250 was a deal of a lifetime: original packaging, manual etc. at a very reasonable price.

 

[aamwgm]

I did find an E-350 in my area at an asking price of €3000.
I've not found the courage to drive to the location to pick up the amplifier, and to cough up the amount.

I've started doubting the upgrade. As said many times in this forum: most amplifier caused distortion is completely trumped by the speaker distortion. And while I think my PeLeon's are top class speakers, I'm sure they and my room are by far the biggest sources of distortion.

Thus, with the E-350, the only things to gain is the fully balanced circuit, remote control, and (likely) longevity.

Aesthetically, I find the E-202 looks better; the E-350 being gorgeous in its own right.

Here's how she looks:

 

[respice finem]

If it was my setup, I would do one upgrade: put the TV in the middle.
TV sound beside the TV?

And maybe put the amp on the lowboard for better cooling.

 

[aamwgm]

If it was my setup, I would do one upgrade: put the TV in the middle.

Haha.
The TV is on a wall mount and movable: it's on the side right now due to the turntable; when we watch something it's in the middle.
I should've taken a better picture.

 

[DanielT]

I did find an E-350 in my area at an asking price of €3000.
I've not found the courage to drive to the location to pick up the amplifier, and to cough up the amount.

I've started doubting the upgrade. As said many times in this forum: most amplifier caused distortion is completely trumped by the speaker distortion. And while I think my PeLeon's are top class speakers, I'm sure they and my room are by far the biggest sources of distortion.

Thus, with the E-350, the only things to gain is the fully balanced circuit, remote control, and (likely) longevity.

Aesthetically, I find the E-202 looks better; the E-350 being gorgeous in its own right.

Here's how she looks:
View attachment 474326

Looks nice.

Is that the only way you can place the speakers? Not really optimal to have the left one almost squeezed into a corner.
Have you tried squeezing the right speaker in the same way in the right corner of the room? That's to create symmetry, equal conditions for both speakers.

Alternatively, move the entire hi-fi rig with the speakers a little more to the right. Unless the right speaker is already close to a corner that is? A little hard to tell from the picture.

By the way, if you have a window on the right side of the room, you have challenges with that too, especially if it's a large window. But now I'm just guessing.

 

[aamwgm]

Is that the only way you can place the speakers? Not really optimal to have the left one almost squeezed into a corner.

Ideally yeah, keeping WAF in mind. But I can experiment.
Will a bass trap behind the speakers help?

Have you tried squeezing the right speaker in the same way in the right corner of the room? That's to create symmetry, equal conditions for both speakers.

I haven't but that seems doable. This is a good tip.

Alternatively, move the entire hi-fi rig with the speakers a little more to the right. Unless the right speaker is already close to a corner that is? A little hard to tell from the picture.

This is also doable.
There's a large plant to the right, but I can swap it with the speaker. There's a wall to the right of the plant.

By the way, if you have a window on the right side of the room, you have challenges with that too, especially if it's a large window. But now I'm just guessing.

Its a very large window (just got placed, which explains the unplastered wall):

 

[DanielT]

Ideally yeah, keeping WAF in mind. But I can experiment.
Will a bass trap behind the speakers help?

I haven't but that seems doable. This is a good tip.

This is also doable.
There's a large plant to the right, but I can swap it with the speaker. There's a wall to the right of the plant.

Its a very large window (just got placed, which explains the unplastered wall):
View attachment 474343

Nice to have a large window. Nice view of your garden too.

Will a bass trap behind the speakers help?
Bass traps, brr. Big and cumbersome. Try EQ instead if you can and want.

Let's say that your speakers are designed to have a smooth frequency response when they are placed a bit away from walls, for example, by compensating the bass response by lowering the tweeter level (baffle stage compensation). If you then place both speakers in the corners of the room, it can theoretically give a 12 dB acustic boost, mainly in the bass area. What to do? EQ , or if you don't want to implement any EQ (software), turn down the bass level on your bass tone control (it's a rougher, not so accurate method, but better than nothing).
The advantage of both in the corners is the symmetry aspect, even though the right speaker ends up quite close, although not directly, to the window.
Large windows and reflections are undeniably, from a sound perspective, a problem, however.

Are your speakers sealed or ported? If ported, where is the port placed?

I'm not much better myself, I've just placed the speakers in a rather bad place in the summer cottage where I'm at. That's to fit when I'm sitting on the couch. I want the view. Plus I won't put up any thick curtains, even if that would help sound-wise. I prioritize the view.
I've EQed the bass area though, always something, to fix the crazy 10 dB dip around 60 Hz. It gave a much better coherent sound.

 

[aamwgm]

Nice to have a large window. Nice view of your garden too.

Will a bass trap behind the speakers help?
Bass traps, brr. Big and cumbersome. Try EQ instead if you can and want.

Let's say that your speakers are designed to have a smooth frequency response when they are placed a bit away from walls, for example, by compensating the bass response by lowering the tweeter level (baffle stage compensation). If you then place both speakers in the corners of the room, it can theoretically give a 12 dB acustic boost, mainly in the bass area. What to do? EQ , or if you don't want to implement any EQ (software), turn down the bass level on your bass tone control (it's a rougher, not so accurate method, but better than nothing).
The advantage of both in the corners is the symmetry aspect, even though the right speaker ends up quite close, although not directly, to the window.
Large windows and reflections are undeniably, from a sound perspective, a problem, however.

Are your speakers sealed or ported? If ported, where is the port placed?

I'm not much better myself, I've just placed the speakers in a rather bad place in the summer cottage where I'm at. That's to fit when I'm sitting on the couch. I want the view. Plus I won't put up any thick curtains, even if that would help sound-wise. I prioritize the view.
I've EQed the bass area though, always something, to fix the crazy 10 dB dip around 60 Hz. It gave a much better coherent sound.
View attachment 474351

Wow thanks for such a detailed reply.

Isn’t that a Harman Kardon vintage receiver?