Using an Accuphase E-202 in today's age. Am I missing something?

[aamwgm]

So I've been happily using a second hand Accuphase E-202 for the past 6 months. Besides cleaning out the inside, contact spray and replacing the VU Meter LED's, the amplifier didn't need any further repair. I haven't even bothered replacing the capacitors, as is commonly suggested in vintage gear circles. Why fix it if it ain't broken?

In another system I use at home, I have a much more modern Accuphase E-250. Apart from the cosmetics, the only difference I can "hear" (no measurements) is that the E-250 is much more neutral. The E-202 likes to pump bass, and my guess is that it's response curve has some gain on the low end. This can be corrected using an EQ.

Now, being a gear addict: part of me wonders if I'm missing something in not using modern gear in the E-202's place. The rest of the chain is very modern:
PC → reasonable DAC → E-202 ← Lyngdorf CD-2
With PeLeon Kantor S-4 speakers.

What am I (not) missing?

 

[DanielT]

Damn, nice amplifiers you have.

In another system I use at home, I have a much more modern Accuphase E-250. Apart from the cosmetics, the only difference I can "hear" (no measurements) is that the E-250 is much more neutral. The E-202 likes to pump bass, and my guess is that it's response curve has some gain on the low end. This can be corrected using an EQ.

IF your amplifiers work as they should, if you don't turn the bass tone controls (can you bypass them?) plus considering their power and your speakers' relatively high sensitivity of 91 dB, I dare say that you won't really hear any difference in the bass range. Provided that the speakers don't dip really low in impedance and one of your amplifiers wouldn't be able to handle it.

But for example, your old Accuphase E-202, spec'd at 140 watts into 4 Ohms (0.05% distortion at half power). Should handle your speakers with flying colors.


There were a lot of IF conditions in what I said above, but still.

PeLeon Kantor S-4:

Kantor S4

La KANTOR S4 est une enceinte acoustique de type 2 voies électrique plus filtrage mécanique. La KANTOR S4 reprend le principe de charge acoustique interne « Cross- flow » déjà appliqué dans plusieurs de mes réalisations. Ce système est composé de deux cavités couplées acoustiquement (avec...

pe-leon.com

I haven't even bothered replacing the capacitors, as is commonly suggested in vintage gear circles. Why fix it if it ain't broken?

Regarding recap, see this thread:

'Importance of replacing the electrolytic capacitors in any vintage gears'

Dec 16, 2023

Quote from this part of the article below. In that link you can see how the values of the capacitors were measured and how much they deviate from spec/tolerance. The question is whether it is possible to generalize and say this:

As one can see from the test results about 30% of all original electrolytic capacitors removed from the power amplifier board exceed a factory capacitance tolerance. Some e-caps have relatively high ESR values. I also noticed that many of the original capacitors are leaky and have corrosive leads due to electrolyte leakage. All of these observations show the...

• DanielT
• Replies: 137
• Forum: Amplifiers, Phono preamp, and Analog Audio Review

 

[aamwgm]

Regarding recap, see this thread:

Just reading the first few posts, it seems like the general advice seems to be not to fix what ain't broken?

I've visually inspected all capacitors and seen no signs of bulging/leaking.

 

[aamwgm]

can you bypass them?

And yes, the Accuphase lets you turn off the tone controls.
I should try this again but I reckon the sound stayed bassy even with the tone controls off.

 

[Joachim Herbert]

So I've been happily using a second hand Accuphase E-202 for the past 6 months. Besides cleaning out the inside, contact spray and replacing the VU Meter LED's, the amplifier didn't need any further repair. I haven't even bothered replacing the capacitors, as is commonly suggested in vintage gear circles. Why fix it if it ain't broken?

In another system I use at home, I have a much more modern Accuphase E-250. Apart from the cosmetics, the only difference I can "hear" (no measurements) is that the E-250 is much more neutral. The E-202 likes to pump bass, and my guess is that it's response curve has some gain on the low end. This can be corrected using an EQ.

Now, being a gear addict: part of me wonders if I'm missing something in not using modern gear in the E-202's place. The rest of the chain is very modern:
PC → reasonable DAC → E-202 ← Lyngdorf CD-2
With PeLeon Kantor S-4 speakers.

What am I (not) missing?

Great amp. Enjoyed one back in the day. As to the bass: Did you try different damping settings (rotary switch on the back). I would suggest setting this to max.

 

[DanielT]

Just reading the first few posts, it seems like the general advice seems to be not to fix what ain't broken?

Yes, or no, ...or it depends. Check starting from #92 in that thread, with a concrete example and the advice and tips that follow regarding the vintage amplifier.

I've visually inspected all capacitors and seen no signs of bulging/leaking.

A first step. If you don't have the opportunity, knowledge yourself then why not let a professional repairman do an overhaul? It depends on what your amplifiers are worth, on the market and or worth to you to keep in working condition for years to come.

Edit:
With such nice amplifiers, I would have handed them in to a professional for an overhaul.

 

[DanielT]

What am I (not) missing?

It depends on what you are interested in. If you are happy with how it sounds now, you probably don't do much more than listen to music.

If not, some suggestions (the usual tips):
Add subwoofers.
Fix your room modes (regardless of whether you add a subwoofer or not). It can easily swing 10 dB up and down and create a weird and bad bass sound in all rooms. Fixed mainly via EQ. You have to measure it first and see where the bass problems lie.
(ultra simple if you want to test, which are not 100% accurate,apps for measuring and setting EQ, PEQ apps exist. They are rudimentary but work. I use it myself in my summer cottage. )

Room modes - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Here is a tip if you use streamed music. A streamer with a good capable DAC built-in which also has EQ/PEQ capabilities:

'WiiM Pro Plus Streamer Review'

Dec 9, 2023

This is a review and detailed measurements of the WiiM Pro Plus streamer, DAC and preamplifier with Bluetooth support. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $219.

While the case is plastic, it still "looks the part" as the Brits would say relative to other more famous brands of streamers. I was pleasantly surprised to see support for analog input:

There is both Toslink in and out and even trigger support (for automation/turning on downstream devices). As usual, you need to download an App to get access to full set of functionality. Upon running said...

• amirm
• Replies: 1,070
• Forum: Home Music Servers, Computers and Streamers

• 

Beyond that. I don't know. Maybe this would be something, IF you're in need of something similar?:

'Wood acoustic diffusers have become a decorative item - loved the idea!'

Nov 8, 2022

Hi

As an acoustician I am tired to tell people not to think room treatment only as absorption. In most small rooms absorption often creates more issues than it solves. Diffusion is a better solution. However, all I hear: they are expensive, ugly and difficult to place in a room. I am hence pleasantly surprised when I stumbled upon these on Etsy!

Wood Sound Diffuser - Etsy UK

Check out our wood sound diffuser selection for the very best in unique or custom, handmade pieces from our shops.

www.etsy.com

Not all are done correctly but nevertheless any similarly constructed panel will diffuse the sound in a room. They are a much better choice than foam panels to stop a...

• sarumbear
• Replies: 226
• Forum: Room Acoustics and General Speaker Discussions

• 

 

[Mart68]

What am I (not) missing?

What are you missing when using Accuphase? - you're missing out on biscuit tin cases, nasty blue screens, plastic controls, ultra-bland appearance or overdesigned ugliness (take your pick - there seems to be no other options now), relatively poor service life and massive depreciation on resale

 

[DSJR]

Endearing old amp that, only the switches go noisy and pots crackly with the years. I don't know which ones, but there are apparently one or two electrolytic caps which ought to be checked routinely, not necessarily all of them.

Original Accuphase did tend to a subjective 'double cream' kind of presentation on the line inputs as well as phono, this in direct comparison with the likes of Yamaha and Pioneer (the latter too much the other way sometimes I remember).. I don't remember the E202 being as 'beefy' as the separate pre-power amps were, however.

Get it professionally checked over and enjoy it for the truly glorious amp-antique that it is I echo ever word in @Mart68's post above!

 

[DanielT]

What are you missing when using Accuphase? - you're missing out on biscuit tin cases, nasty blue screens, plastic controls, ultra-bland appearance or overdesigned ugliness (take your pick - there seems to be no other options now), relatively poor service life and massive depreciation on resale

Ha ha, well said.

 

[aamwgm]

Great amp. Enjoyed one back in the day. As to the bass: Did you try different damping settings (rotary switch on the back). I would suggest setting this to max.

I've just set it to max and left it there. I didn't experiment much with it.

Get it professionally checked over and enjoy it for the glorious amp-antique that it is

Good suggestion. And yes, I love how it sounds! It also has the looks to die for.

 

[aamwgm]

What are you missing when using Accuphase? - you're missing out on biscuit tin cases, nasty blue screens, plastic controls, ultra-bland appearance or overdesigned ugliness (take your pick - there seems to be no other options now), relatively poor service life and massive depreciation on resale

I was considering replacing this with a used E-350 off the used market. :-D
I'd be gaining balanced inputs, and then I'd have another reason to switch to a balanced DAC on this system. This would ideally be the RME ADI-2 DAC FS.

My bank account will be very sad.

 

[Mart68]

I was considering replacing this with a used E-350 off the used market. :-D
I'd be gaining balanced inputs, and then I'd have another reason to switch to a balanced DAC on this system. This would ideally be the RME ADI-2 DAC FS.

My bank account will be very sad.

But everything else will be happy

 

[aamwgm]

But everything else will be happy

So will the wife, actually. She prefers the Champagne gold look of the modern Accuphases.

 

[aamwgm]

With such nice amplifiers, I would have handed them in to a professional for an overhaul.

Indeed, this is something I've been confused by. While I have a decent tech. nearby, I'm not sure if I can trust him with my Accuphase.

 

[DVDdoug]

it seems like the general advice seems to be not to fix what ain't broken?

That's my advice.

Electrolytic capacitors are mostly used where the capacitance value is not critical, and a value is often chosen that's higher than needed so if it ages and goes-down it's still good. And there's the possibility of damaging a circuit board, except some large capacitors used in power supplies aren't mounted on a circuit board so it's less risky.

You can't properly test or measure a capacitor without removing at least one lead and at that point it's usually best to go-ahead and replace it (assuming it's on a circuit board). I work in electronics and whenever we're troubleshooting a new board in production and a component is removed, we install a new one, even if that part wasn't the problem. Most of the cost is in the labor, and of course we have the components on-hand.

If whole amplifier is disassembled it MIGHT be worth doing (to potentially extend the amplifier's life, if it ain't already broken).

...If I was in the business of refurbishing amplifiers I'd probably leave it up to the customer and they could decide if they want to spend the extra money.

 

[DanielT]

Indeed, this is something I've been confused by. While I have a decent tech. nearby, I'm not sure if I can trust him with my Accuphase.

Setting bias and checking currents for example. Plus visually seeing that it looks good and measuring anything that looks suspiciously worn out and so on, any professional repairer can do that.

Performing a recap, replacing components, however, I would at least know more about the repairer I handed it in to. Are there positive reviews written online and so on. Verify knowledge and professionalism, that is.
IF a recap MUST be done. If things have broken or will in the very near future. However, if it works well, I would be hesitant about extensive replacements of, for example, various capacitors in that case.

When I quickly checked the service manual via Hifiengine (don't ask me in detail because I'm not a professional repairer) I discovered an odd thing.
As far as I can see, it is possible to set the damping factor on your amplifier. "SPEAKER DAMPING" switch set to

I seriously have absolutely no idea what it is supposed to be good for, other than if you set it to "soft" it might create a different sound with your speakers. Maybe then a spongy bass? More knowledgeable people can give their opinion on that at:

https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/accuphase/e-202.shtml

 

[aamwgm]

IF a recap MUST be done. If things have broken or will in the very near future. However, if it works well, I would be hesitant about extensive replacements of, for example, various capacitors in that case.

Indeed. Not to forget that my tech. has a full queue of vintage amplifiers he needs to repair. He often takes over a month even for smaller repairs.

When I quickly checked the service manual via Hifiengine (don't ask me in detail because I'm not a professional repairer) I discovered an odd thing.
As far as I can see, it is possible to set the damping factor on your amplifier. "SPEAKER DAMPING" switch set to

Yes, this amplifier is a bit of an oddball: it has these "lab" like features. Even the phono amp is pretty detailed, and allows you to set the gain. It's all quite extensive.

If whole amplifier is disassembled it MIGHT be worth doing (to potentially extend the amplifier's life, if it ain't already broken).

My plan is to keep visually inspecting the caps routinely and take action when needed.
I certainly love this amplifier (although I'm tempted by the new and shiny) and would like it to last me a long time, so when the time comes, shelling out a few hundred €'s is not a problem.

That's my advice.

This is a relief to hear, honestly. Thank you.

 

[DanielT]

Indeed. Not to forget that my tech. has a full queue of vintage amplifiers he needs to repair. He often takes over a month even for smaller repairs.

Yes, this amplifier is a bit of an oddball: it has these "lab" like features. Even the phono amp is pretty detailed, and allows you to set the gain. It's all quite extensive.

My plan is to keep visually inspecting the caps routinely and take action when needed.
I certainly love this amplifier (although I'm tempted by the new and shiny) and would like it to last me a long time, so when the time comes, shelling out a few hundred €'s is not a problem.


This is a relief to hear, honestly. Thank you.

Hm. What have you set the damping factor to now?

If the bass movement is not controlled, it will oscillate and those vibrations can in themselves create more, but colored, bass. It vibrates more than it should, so to speak.

Damping factor 1 more than that is definitely recommended. Even if damping factor 1, with 8 Ohm speakers as in the video below, dampens, it is not optimal. Watch the first seven minutes. A practical example is shown:

But note I am not a technical expert so regarding your amplifier together with your specific speakers and the different settings of damping factors you do. If this results in, possibly leads to, changes in the sound, someone more knowledgeable can tell you more about it.
Maybe you will hear it yourself if you change the settings?

Edit:
Whether it's healthy for your amp plus your 4 Ohm speakers to change those settings back and forth , I'll let someone else answer.

 

[aamwgm]

Hm. What have you set the damping factor to now?

It’s set to the max possible setting (Normal)