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Using a Stereo Input Ceiling speaker for both Surround and Atmos channel

Robert R

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A lot of companies make stereo input ceiling speakers that have two tweeters, each for a separate channel. They are typically used where you have limited space, but want 2 channel sound. Products like JBL Arena 6ICDT, Focal 100 IC 6-ST etc.

Instead of using for L/R, what would the result be of using this for a Surround/Atmos pair? Orient the angled tweeter so one points "in" and back at 45 degrees and and one points "out" and forward and use that for the Atmos. Place overhead and behind the seating, like this:

SNAGIT.jpg


(or the opposite in/out).

Bad idea? Given that these are effects channels, I'm thinking that this may work. Another variant would be to keep the existing normal surrounds, and then use each stereo input for two Atmos channels, pointing the tweeter directly forward/back. The forward tweeter channel gets the front Atmos channel, and the back tweeter gets the back Atmos channel. Either way, let Audyssey figure out the right filters/delays.

I have existing regular ceiling and side surrounds, so I can just get a low cost pair from Amazon, install and evaluate results (and then return!)
 
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sarumbear

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From the JBL speaker page: "Perfect for kitchens, hallways, and other spaces where you want music from a single in-ceiling location."

The concept of immersive audio is to be enveloped from multiple locations around and above you. A single location is the opposite of that effect.
 
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Robert R

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I must apologize if I was unclear in my original post. There will be two of these speakers, each one providing both the surround and Atmos channels. So one speaker provides LS and TopLeftRear and the other provides RS and TopRightRear. I've seen numerous installs where the surrounds are in the ceiling because there were no available wall locations.

Hence by using 2 speakers, each with 2 discrete channels, I believe it should provide "immersive audio...from multiple locations ...above you."
 

sarumbear

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I must apologize if I was unclear in my original post. There will be two of these speakers, each one providing both the surround and Atmos channels. So one speaker provides LS and TopLeftRear and the other provides RS and TopRightRear. I've seen numerous installs where the surrounds are in the ceiling because there were no available wall locations.

Hence by using 2 speakers, each with 2 discrete channels, I believe it should provide "immersive audio...from multiple locations ...above you."
You are still reducing the locations by combining an ear level location with a ceiling one. Imagine the half sphere of 7 speakers, all ear level, surrounding you and then the perpendicular to that the ceiling location above you.
 
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Robert R

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Understood. The problem is that there are no walls where I can place the surrounds at ear level. So this is a hack, I admit.
 

sarumbear

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Understood. The problem is that there are no walls where I can place the surrounds at ear level. So this is a hack, I admit.
Surrounds are expected to be at ear level, at the same height as the front LCR. How does them positioned?
 

Andysu

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a bit off and on topic .

i leave the speakers in the ceiling .
70mm cinerama gamount bournemouth , screen 1 used flush ceiling mounted x6 overhead surrounds 1969 .
look closely at ceiling see x6 squares . the other surrounds lower down are JBL 8330 mkI installed 1999 for Dolby digital CP500 partly JBL in screen 1 . screen 2 or now screen 6 had full JBL install CP500 .
83914462_10157823637940149_9126692993036713984_n.jpg
screen 2 downstairs used left/right halve surrounds sidewall back wall and x6 flush overhead surrounds . sort of ahead of , all this atmos stuff and sounded as whole when all was playing rather decent sounding for Dolby Stereo 4.2.4 with CP50 .


CIC UCI cinemas tower park used experimental overhead surround at one few other UCI sites as well . tower park 1989 worked there projectionist 1989 1990 .
all screens used EV cinema pa speakers . the two larger screens used x8 surrounds for the overhead surround . Dolby Stereo CP55 used with SRA5 .
84091475_10157823645965149_8424125128975056896_n (1).jpg56558689_10156967645990149_1127117495711301632_n.jpg

the smaller screens used x7 surrounds for overhead surround .
84386661_10157823642185149_1295237591011950592_n (1).jpg

dolby labs today will go to any length to shove atmos down peoples throats where Dolby Stereo with overhead surrounds at UCI tower park was never shoved down the public's throats with over-hyped marketing that dolby atmos is being pushed shoved as far down throats as possible can . discrete sound deciding extracting the signal for overhead ? or is that sound overhead ? some mixers directors often use random sounds and i think just sticking on film to be up there on the ceiling without giving it any thought ? some sounds just don't seem to sound correct ? well the approach used for matrix overhead surround decades ago wasn't perfect . and nor is atmos auro dead-3d or dtsx .

sonic whole overhead surround . soundlux/Todd-AO for " we where soldiers " used anti-phase mixed into the stereo surrounds so a matrix overhead surround would be generated via the rear matrix ( extra output ) on the Dolby SA10 ( or CP45 ) . no home version used the 4 channel version of surround EX , home version was watered down 3 channel version . one cinema played the movie with no pictures of that cinema ? just some diagram that showed a ceiling that was cluster of speakers used for the overhead , more than atmos layouts .
 
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polmuaddib

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At one time i had mu rear speakers positioned high above the ear level, and they were relatively close to rear height speakers.
I now have the rears at ear level behind me and the surround effect is much better.
You can try it, but I doubt you’ll get what was intended in the mix.
Better regular in ceiling and in wall speakers. Cheaper then those, I think…
 

Jonas_h

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dolby labs today will go to any length to shove atmos down peoples throats where Dolby Stereo with overhead surrounds at UCI tower park was never shoved down the public's throats

Have you considered the consumer-market in 1989 vs. the consumer-market in 2022? I think the whole "shove surround technology down the publics throat" is a lot different overall.

And can you help me understand why you think it is so negative that many new movies use a sound format which supports more discrete channels and that receivers and processors are made with this sound format? Is this bad?
 

Andysu

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At one time i had mu rear speakers positioned high above the ear level, and they were relatively close to rear height speakers.
I now have the rears at ear level behind me and the surround effect is much better.
You can try it, but I doubt you’ll get what was intended in the mix.
Better regular in ceiling and in wall speakers. Cheaper then those, I think…
yeah , even with proper left/right halve surrounds with back wall surrounds and sidewall i get the proper over the shoulder effect .
 
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Jonas_h

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yeah , even with proper left/right halve surrounds with back wall surrounds and sidewall i get the proper over the shoulder effect .
You seem to have forgot to answer and comment on my question you quoted?

EDIT: It seems that Andysu was not able to provide an answer and have blocked me :) Oh well. I hope people are not scared away from these new formats based on posts like that.
 
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VINT

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Je posséde 2 TAGA HARMONY IW100 en plafond + 3.5 DB via denon AVRX 4500 / Surface = 22m2. Super résultat.
 
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