Using a PC as a DAC

[Thieluar]

Is there a serious downside in sound quality of using a PC as a DAC?

Im using an asrock HTPC https://www.asrock.com/nettop/intel/Vision 3D Series/index.asp into an Ampapa D1 for playing music (and viewing/recording TV). I use spotify for music, on the HTPC, with its built in PEQ. Most of the time I use my laptop or phone with the spotify remote option for the HTPC, very convinient, (even though the HTPC has it own remote). The sound card is set to DVD quality bitrate. I can crank it higher but hear no difference.

Vision 3D 137D

• CPU
  - Intel® Core™ i3-370M Mobile Processor
  - Support Intel® Core™ i7 / i5 / i3 Mobile Processor Family
• Chipset
  - Mobile Intel® HM55 Express chipset
• Memory
  - 2 x 2GB DDR3 1066MHz
  - Support DDR3 1066MHz, 2 x SO-DIMM slots, Max. up to 8GB*
  
  *Due to the operating system limitation, the actual memory size may be less than 4GB for the reservation for system usage under Windows® 32-bit OS. For Windows® 64-bit OS with 64-bit CPU, there is no such limitation.
• Graphics
  - NVIDIA® GeForce GT425M Graphics, NVIDIA® 3D Vision, 3DTV Play Capable
• Audio
  - 7.1 CH HD Audio
• HDD
  - 500GB, 7200 rpm
  - Support 2.5" SATA HDD
• ODD
  - DVD Super Multi
• LAN
  - Gigabit LAN
• WLAN
  - 2T2R WiFi 802.11b/g/n
• Front I/O
  - 2 x USB 3.1 Gen1
  - 1 x MIC
  - 1 x Headphone
  - 4-in-1 Card reader (MMC/SD/MS/MS PRO)
• Rear I/O
  - 1 x HDMI
  - 1 x DVI-I (Dual-Link)
  - 5 x USB 2.0
  - 1 x S/PDIF
  - 1 x eSATAII*
  - 1 x USB 3.1 Gen1**
  
  * For eSATA function, Hot Plug function is supported in AHCI mode only. IDE mode does not support Hot Plug function.
  
  ** This USB 3.1 Gen1 port does not support Hot-Plug and legacy function.
• Volume (liters)
  - 2.8L
• Remote Controller
  - MCE Remote Controller
• Power Unit
  - 90W/19V Adapter
• Dimension
  - 200mm (W) x 70mm (H) x 200mm (L)
• OS
  - Microsoft® Windows® 7 / 7 64-bit / Vista™ / Vista™ 64-bit / XP / XP 64-bit compliant

Because i still use the old windows MCE i stick with win7 as it still works great.

Would i benefit much in audio quality from buying a dedicated DAC? Would be interesting to hear your comments.

 

[antcollinet]

While far from state of the art from a measurements point of view - most dacs built into PC's are perfectly fine, and will be pretty much as good as anything else - audibly.

Sometimes they can suffer from the ground noise from the high power high frequency components (such as graphics cards) propagating noise via ground loops. But if you are not hearing such noise then you don't have that problem.

So if you are happy with the sound - just enjoy it - and try to prevent FOMO causing un-needed purchases. Quite likely - if you did get an external DAC - you would not hear any audible benefit.

 

[Cote Dazur]

Would i benefit much in audio quality from buying a dedicated DAC?

Short answer: No.
The music/signal coming out will be so identical that if you where to listen to it or a DAC without knowing what is playing you would not be able to tell what is playing.

 

[MCH]

I would watch for noise (hiss) when nothing is playing and maybe try to do some loop measurements if it has a line in to see if there are any obvious flaws.

 

[Pauli]

So this would be your Line-out interface?

 

[respice finem]

If it works (and you are happy with it), don't try to fix it. You might even run into software (driver) issues, because many new DACs have no drivers for Windows 7 any more.

 

[Thieluar]

View attachment 553791

So this would be your Line-out interface?

I have occasionally used the 3,5 mm from HTPC to to RCA on my old yamaha pianocraft stereo that are beeing ditched for the moment. but now it´s complicated.

For convenience I now run:

• hdmi from HTPC into TV:s hdmi (since I use HTPC also for watching TV via antenna into TV-card).
• then from the TV:s 3,5mm jack it goes into to RCA on the Ampapa.

Would there be a better a better setup sound wise, with or without that the TV has be considered, for optimal sound?

Here is the backside to the Ampapa, So besides from BT there is only RCA and TRS balanced input. I´m not using the balanced input at the moment.

 

[phofman]

For convenience I now run:

• hdmi from HTPC into TV:s hdmi (since I use HTPC also for watching TV via antenna into TV-card).
• then from the TV:s 3,5mm jack it goes into to RCA on the Ampapa.

So the DAC in your TV is used.

 

[TonyJZX]

hdmi out is obviously whatever on the end doing the D to A

but like you can buy that Jade Audio K11 thing this place wents nuts for

FiiO KA11 Review

The FiiO KA11 is a new DAC/Amp from FiiO, going for abut $29,99 USD. Will it replace your default dongle? Find out in this Headfonia review.

www.headfonia.com

i have a whole bunch of them and they sound just fine but surely you can just use hdmi for everything???

 

[BookshelfBob]

Is there a serious downside in sound quality of using a PC as a DAC?

Im using an asrock HTPC https://www.asrock.com/nettop/intel/Vision 3D Series/index.asp into an Ampapa D1 for playing music (and viewing/recording TV). I use spotify for music, on the HTPC, with its built in PEQ. Most of the time I use my laptop or phone with the spotify remote option for the HTPC, very convinient, (even though the HTPC has it own remote). The sound card is set to DVD quality bitrate. I can crank it higher but hear no difference.
View attachment 553786
Vision 3D 137D

• CPU
  - Intel® Core™ i3-370M Mobile Processor
  - Support Intel® Core™ i7 / i5 / i3 Mobile Processor Family
• Chipset
  - Mobile Intel® HM55 Express chipset
• Memory
  - 2 x 2GB DDR3 1066MHz
  - Support DDR3 1066MHz, 2 x SO-DIMM slots, Max. up to 8GB*
  
  *Due to the operating system limitation, the actual memory size may be less than 4GB for the reservation for system usage under Windows® 32-bit OS. For Windows® 64-bit OS with 64-bit CPU, there is no such limitation.
• Graphics
  - NVIDIA® GeForce GT425M Graphics, NVIDIA® 3D Vision, 3DTV Play Capable
• Audio
  - 7.1 CH HD Audio
• HDD
  - 500GB, 7200 rpm
  - Support 2.5" SATA HDD
• ODD
  - DVD Super Multi
• LAN
  - Gigabit LAN
• WLAN
  - 2T2R WiFi 802.11b/g/n
• Front I/O
  - 2 x USB 3.1 Gen1
  - 1 x MIC
  - 1 x Headphone
  - 4-in-1 Card reader (MMC/SD/MS/MS PRO)
• Rear I/O
  - 1 x HDMI
  - 1 x DVI-I (Dual-Link)
  - 5 x USB 2.0
  - 1 x S/PDIF
  - 1 x eSATAII*
  - 1 x USB 3.1 Gen1**
  
  * For eSATA function, Hot Plug function is supported in AHCI mode only. IDE mode does not support Hot Plug function.
  
  ** This USB 3.1 Gen1 port does not support Hot-Plug and legacy function.
• Volume (liters)
  - 2.8L
• Remote Controller
  - MCE Remote Controller
• Power Unit
  - 90W/19V Adapter
• Dimension
  - 200mm (W) x 70mm (H) x 200mm (L)
• OS
  - Microsoft® Windows® 7 / 7 64-bit / Vista™ / Vista™ 64-bit / XP / XP 64-bit compliant

Because i still use the old windows MCE i stick with win7 as it still works great.

Would i benefit much in audio quality from buying a dedicated DAC? Would be interesting to hear your comments.

Considering it was designed to be a HTPC, the outputs are probably shielded well from any interference. That was a common problem* in the past, poor shielding and getting odd noises.

Not saying you can't go pick yourself out the finest DAC that ever existed. But you're at the point of diminishing returns. Makes more sense to go up the value chain for your speakers and subs. Add some room correction. ETC

 

[Ruediger]

Is there a serious downside in sound quality of using a PC as a DAC?

It depends on the onboard audio chip on your mainboard. There are bad ones and there are decent ones. The modern RealTek chips are OK to use in general. Afaik a big difference with them is how they treat (detect) the headphone jack on the front. But the line-out in the back is what the specs say it is. You have to make sure not to introduce trouble with the plug, cable, etc.

Personally I would use optical out (simple dongle) and some external DAC.

 

[TonyJZX]

realistically we already know that the AC97 Realtek ALC267 or whatever the hell they were using at the time is going to be very low rent

i assume if you are here you have gear that will easily resolve the difference between a 15y,o audio codec and anything like... good

amir loves them apple or google usb to 3.5 dongles and i think they are an instant improvment

use a type A to C adapter though

 

[phofman]

According to https://www.techspot.com/review/334-asrock-vision-3d-htpc/page3.html that MB should use Realtek ALC890B HDA codec. There does not seem to be a datasheet available online for that particular chip (quite common for Realtek), the datasheet for a closely similar ALC892 says 97dB SNR (A-weighting), 192/24 capable.

The previous AC97 standard was only up to 5.1, 96kHz max.

But IIUC OP uses the DAC in his TV anyway.

 

[Pauli]

But IIUC OP uses the DAC in his TV anyway.

I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that this may be even worse than using any computer’s soundboard DAC.

 

[kemmler3D]

With audio output built into PCs or TVs they can be just fine, but it's hard to know what you're getting. The only really bad distortion I've heard from a headphone output was on my old work laptop. But If you don't hear anything wrong, don't worry about it.

If you're really not comfortable with that you can run some tests with REW.

 

[Chr1]

I briefly tested the audio out from my fanless Beelink T34 Gemini, via 3.5mm jack and thought it sounded very good/transparent. However, as someone previously mentioned, I reckon that with some more powerful computers, with gaming graphics cards etc, there's probably more of a chance of noise being introduced.

Quick question. Slightly OT: What, if anything is the difference between an "audio out" and a "headphone", 3.5mm output?

 

[Ruediger]

Quick question. Slightly OT: What, if anything is the difference between an "audio out" and a "headphone", 3.5mm output?

Power, impedance, gain f.e.

 

[Chr1]

Thanks. Can you elaborate please?

Are there standards?

The reason I ask is that have seen outputs marked with a symbol of a pair of headphones, but that are labelled "audio out" on the manufacturers product diagrams.
Kinda confusing!

 

[ATTI]

Interesting to observe that many people say you could not hear difference between onboard audio codec and descent external DAC buy such ones for themselves.

ing a PC as a DAC?

You mean integrated audio card as a DAC. PC by itself it just a source.

 

[Thieluar]

Thanks for your answers, suggestion and comments!

HTPC does not seem to big thing, at least anymore but for me it´s practical with a do it all machine.

I´ve only had the Ampapa for a few days. The system sound good as is, but if things can be better... its better.

Leading the signal via the TV is probably a bad idea, have´nt thought much about it. Possibly i can connect the TV to the HTPC instead, then from HTPC to the Ampapa, so that music sound becomes nr 1 prio. Dont think ive tried that with the yamaha amp. Anyway, I Will try try to make an A vs B comparison with current setup using the HTPC:s CD-player vs a stand alone player directly to Ampapa to check how much the TV routing degrade the audio.