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Using a dCS Bartók DAC and Roon With a Genelec SAM™ System (For Music and Home Theater)

danielmiessler

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Hey all, ASR newbie here, and I'm SO glad I found you all. I was about to spend like $40K on amps and $20K on speakers, on top of the $15K I already spent on my DAC.

And it's taken basically 48 hours for me to realize I should put that amp money into a full Genelec SAM™ setup instead. I'm looking to do 1) 3 x Left, right, and center 8361A SAM Monitors, 2 x W371A SAM Woofers, and 2 x 7380A SAM subs—of course all working together as one system using GLM software optimization.

(takes deep breath)

I am eternally thankful to this forum for showing me the world of active speakers before I spent a ton of money on what's basically a rich person's hobby of swapping amps and speakers constantly. No thanks. I'd rather listen to music and enjoy media rather than obsess over the equipment.

Now, I have a couple of newb questions:
  1. Do I put my DAC and AV gear into a preamp and connect all the Genelec speakers to the AV gear?
  2. Or should I just go directly from the DAC to the AV preprocessor and amp (I was thinking of doing the Storm stuff).
Basically, how do I make sure I can have a good Atmost/Home Theater experience using Roon and my existing DAC? Or do I definitely need a preamp?
 
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voodooless

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There really is no point in spending any money on a DAC. The Genelec's are active DSP speakers and will use an ADC to convert to digital anyway and use their DACs for the final conversion. If at all possible, connect them digitally in the first place. As for an AV receiver: that is usually not possible, so there analogue is the only way. For 2-channel however, I'd just feed them AES directly. You can switch sources and do volume control using a remote control if I have understood correctly.

I think if you're willing to spend that kind of money on a Genelec system, it might be worth getting some serious setup advice from the retailer in this regard. They've probably done this more often than most of us here, and know exactly what kind of configurations are possible.

BTW, I don't think Roon can handle Dolby Atmos at the moment. In any case, you'll also need an AV-Processor if you want home theatre.
 
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danielmiessler

danielmiessler

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There really is no point in spending any money on a DAC. The Genelec's are active DSP speakers and will use an ADC to convert to digital anyway and use their DACs for the final conversion. If at all possible, connect them digitally in the first place.
I wanted to use the DAC to be the Roon endpoint really.

So I can just manage everything through Roon, send everything to the DAC, and then from there to all the Genelec stuff.

Otherwise how do I get music into all of those Genelec speakers? A preamp? An AV processor/receiver?
 

Jimbob54

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I wanted to use the DAC to be the Roon endpoint really.

So I can just manage everything through Roon, send everything to the DAC, and then from there to all the Genelec stuff.

Otherwise how do I get music into all of those Genelec speakers? A preamp? An AV processor/receiver?

I get a bit hazy past 2 channels. One option might be something like the Octo 8 channel DAC which I think can have a streaming unit inside- but then as @voodooless says, you are using (an amazing) DAC but then converting back to digital in the Gens anyway. I dont know what kit you would need to do that all digitally. https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...d-measurements-of-okto-dac8-8ch-dac-amp.7064/
 

Koeitje

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I wanted to use the DAC to be the Roon endpoint really.

So I can just manage everything through Roon, send everything to the DAC, and then from there to all the Genelec stuff.

Otherwise how do I get music into all of those Genelec speakers? A preamp? An AV processor/receiver?
You will always use the DAC in the Genelec's, either through ADC -> DAC or by straight up digitally connecting them. So you need something that feeds them the format you like. Like for 5.1 you need to feed it 5.1 analog signals to the speakers.
 

abdo123

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I get a bit hazy past 2 channels. One option might be something like the Octo 8 channel DAC which I think can have a streaming unit inside- but then as @voodooless says, you are using (an amazing) DAC but then converting back to digital in the Gens anyway. I dont know what kit you would need to do that all digitally. https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...d-measurements-of-okto-dac8-8ch-dac-amp.7064/

the stereo unit has streaming function, the regular Octo doesn't.

However, that's a very very good option if you have the money. Basically get an Intel NUC (or a Nucleus if you're fancy), plug it into the Okto Research 8 channel DAC.

That's the cleanest 7.1 setup you can have theoretically.
 

abdo123

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Actually, I don't know if the Nucleus supports HDMI 2.0a (For HDR and 60 FPS @ 4k resolution).

So I would either build a full fledged PC (RTX 3000 series) with HDMI 2.1, or I would settle for a recent Intel NUC with HDMI 2.0a.
 
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danielmiessler

danielmiessler

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So I would either build a full fledged PC (RTX 3000 series) with HDMI 2.1, or I would settle for a recent Intel NUC with HDMI 2.0a.
I bought a new Mac Mini M1 that I use for dedicated Roon. It's ungodly fast. I had a NUCLEUS and returned it because it was way slower.
 

abdo123

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I bought a new Mac Mini M1 that I use for dedicated Roon. It's ungodly fast. I had a NUCLEUS and returned it because it was way slower.

Great that's awesome, if you're okay playing your media via the Mac Mini then you just need the Octo 8 channel DAC and you have the most Ultra-objective cleanest multichannel setup there is. No compromises.
 

voodooless

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I think it's a good idea to layout the rest of your setup. How do you intend to do your HT'ing for instance?
 

voodooless

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Octo 8 channel DAC and you have the most Ultra-objective cleanest multichannel setup there is. No compromises.

No compromise would be to feed all the Genelecs digitally. That is also a far cheaper solution.
 

voodooless

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I'd say: have a very, very good look at the GLM manual regarding the setup options. It has good descriptions regarding multichannel setups. Also, check out the 9301A Multichannel interface.

The big issue with Atmos however is getting a digital signal out of an AV-Processor. There are not really very many solutions, other than a PC with some player software that can do Atmos.
 
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FrantzM

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Welcome!

There needs to be a paradigm change. You don't need a preamplifier anymore, there is nothing to "pre-amplify" unless you will use (gasp!) a turntable.
The active speakers you are contemplating take any signal and perform Digital Signal Processing to achieve their stupendous performance. If the signal is analog then they convert it to digital through an ADC (Analog to Digital Converter) and then it goes to the DSP to be "massaged" then to multiple Digital to Analog Converters (DAC) to each of the amplifiers that are in the speakers. The speakers you are contemplating have 3 amplifiers in each box. The subwoofers, also have their own amplifier.

This out of the way.
This is not going to be a simple system:

The subwoofers need to integrated with all these speakers and for that you may need 2 Genelec 9310A Multichannel Interface (See Voodoo post) but these only accept AES/EBU . Those 9310A need to be connected to your AVR or PrePro. I don't know of any PrePro or AVR that output all the channels in digital form ...

Some people here, including Genelec people who are members of this forum can help but this is not going to be simple.

When this is done ( Sell the Bartok BTW :)) you will have something that can only be described as a Dream System.
 
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voodooless

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NTK

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  1. Do I put my DAC and AV gear into a preamp and connect all the Genelec speakers to the AV gear?
  2. Or should I just go directly from the DAC to the AV preprocessor and amp (I was thinking of doing the Storm stuff).
Storm offers full digital audio output as an option.

Storm.jpg
 

FrantzM

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Storm offers full digital audio output as an option.

View attachment 118510

Didn't know about this company and/or its product line.
Not cheap ($20,000) for the ISP 2 .. basic unit.
It is also Roon ready.
Don't know the options prices.
Interesting unit.
I suppose the competitors would be Trinnov Audio and Datasat processors.. Also expensive. Don't know much about these.
 

NTK

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Didn't know about this company and/or its product line.
Not cheap ($20,000) for the ISP 2 .. basic unit.
It is also Roon ready.
Don't know the options prices.
Interesting unit.
I suppose the competitors would be Trinnov Audio and Datasat processors.. Also expensive. Don't know much about these.
Yep. Unfortunately, full digital outputs are only available in the highest of the high-ends.
 
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