USB-C cables: active / passive / E-Mark chips effect on audio quality?

[kadoke]

The eMarker IC is powered by a dedicated power line called VCONN (different from the VBUS line).
It communicates with a dedicated communication line called CC line. (Different from USB D+D- for data)
It does not keep communicating all the time.
It depends on the circuitry of the connected devices, but I don't think eMarker will affect the sound quality.
What is your concern about eMarker?

 

[ZolaIII]

See if you can find:

https://www.sony.co.uk/electronics/accessories/ucb32/buy

Shouldn't be pricy 9~12 $/€.

 

[antcollinet]

The eMarker IC is powered by a dedicated power line called VCONN (different from the VBUS line).
It communicates with a dedicated communication line called CC line. (Different from USB D+D- for data)
It does not keep communicating all the time.
It depends on the circuitry of the connected devices, but I don't think eMarker will affect the sound quality.
What is your concern about eMarker?

Of course it won't affect sound quality - we are talking digital signal transmission here.

Even fully active cables cannot affect sound quality, as long as the data transmission works - which, with a long cable, is more likely with an active cable.

 

[kchap]

The handful of desktop DACs I've seen with USB C connectors just support USB 2. A cheap USB C to USB C should do the job. Power negotiation, gigabit data speeds and active cables do not matter.

 

[ZolaIII]

The handful of desktop DACs I've seen with USB C connectors just support USB 2. A cheap USB C to USB C should do the job. Power negotiation, gigabit data speeds and active cables do not matter.

It supports USB Audio 2.0 which is based and layed out on USB 2.0 specification. All USB 3.x cables are backwards compatible but really there is no reason not to buy a safe, deacent one that will work good for a long time (for a normal price of course). USB Audio 3.0 specifications were finalised couple years back but up to today (to my better knowledge) no one made efforts to utilities it which is really a shame especially for portable battery powered devices as main difference is increased efficiency and it will probably also help minimise impact of power delivery and EMI trough it.

 

[hyperknot]

The eMarker IC is powered by a dedicated power line called VCONN (different from the VBUS line).
It communicates with a dedicated communication line called CC line. (Different from USB D+D- for data)
It does not keep communicating all the time.
It depends on the circuitry of the connected devices, but I don't think eMarker will affect the sound quality.
What is your concern about eMarker?

Nothing, basically I wanted to know if it can affect audio quality. Separate data and voltage line make it sound like it shouldn't be affected.

And I'm not talking about "sonic" kind of audio quality, I'm talking about "bits are bits" kind of quality, where a cheap USB hub could introduce problems or where used/cheap cables can stop a DAC from working on 352kHz sample rates.

Basically I wanted to make sure nothing happens to the data lines between the computer and the DAC.

 

[antcollinet]

Nothing, basically I wanted to know if it can affect audio quality. Separate data and voltage line make it sound like it shouldn't be affected.

And I'm not talking about "sonic" kind of audio quality, I'm talking about "bits are bits" kind of quality, where a cheap USB hub could introduce problems or where used/cheap cables can stop a DAC from working on 352kHz sample rates.

Basically I wanted to make sure nothing happens to the data lines between the computer and the DAC.

It wont

Think about it - if it stopped bits working properly, USB would be useless.

 

[hyperknot]

Am I the only one here who remembers USB hard drives corrupting data based on which cable we used, back in the USB 2.0 years?

Now I understand that DAC interfaces improved a lot since XMOS and motherboards improved a lot with recent chipsets, but USB is definitely not a 100% stable interface. It can corrupt data, there can be buggy USB Hubs, there can be so many kind of strange errors which appear with one cable and not with a different one.

I'm not saying people should buy expensive cables, I'm all for Amazon Basics, but it's definitely not true that USB is a super stable connection method which cannot corrupt data.

 

[dorakeg]

USB 4 version 2.0 will support up to 80Gbps. Unrelated, but I'd love to see measurements for that motherboard's audio.

I don't have any measurements but analog audio output from computers are usually not great. On-board Audio in computers are designed more for functionality rather than outright performance. And the environment is rather noisy as well.

So, if someone meausres the output, I would expect noise to be rather high.

 

[antcollinet]

Am I the only one here who remembers USB hard drives corrupting data based on which cable we used, back in the USB 2.0 years?

Now I understand that DAC interfaces improved a lot since XMOS and motherboards improved a lot with recent chipsets, but USB is definitely not a 100% stable interface. It can corrupt data, there can be buggy USB Hubs, there can be so many kind of strange errors which appear with one cable and not with a different one.

I'm not saying people should buy expensive cables, I'm all for Amazon Basics, but it's definitely not true that USB is a super stable connection method which cannot corrupt data.

Of course - faulty and badly designed equipment has always existed.

But the existence of a chip to identify the capabilities of the cable specified by the standard will not harm the transmission if the cable is properly designed and manufactured. Just as a cable without the chip needs to be properly designed and manufactured.

IOW the existance or otherwise of the chip is not a reason to pick one cable over another. Actual overall cable quality is the issue.

 

[kchap]

I have a Macbook Pro M1 and I'd like to connect my USB-C desktop DAC to it. My question is that there are a zillion types of USB-C cables and I'm totally confused about them.

Basically, all I'd need is a very simple USB 2.0 data cable with Type-C plugs on both ends. What I can see in the shops on the other hand are all kinds of combinations of:

- 60W / 100W
- USB 2.0 / 3.0 / 3.1
- active / passive
- with / without E-Mark chip

For me, the best would be a plain and simple USB 2.0 data cable. My basic instinct is telling me that it's better without any active chip / E-Mark chip in the cable, as it's totally not needed but can possibly introduce some problems. But I don't know this area. Can you help me?

The question we should have asked is: What model DAC are you using?

 

[Music1969]

I have a Macbook Pro M1 and I'd like to connect my USB-C desktop DAC to it. My question is that there are a zillion types of USB-C cables and I'm totally confused about them.

Basically, all I'd need is a very simple USB 2.0 data cable with Type-C plugs on both ends. What I can see in the shops on the other hand are all kinds of combinations of:

- 60W / 100W
- USB 2.0 / 3.0 / 3.1
- active / passive
- with / without E-Mark chip

For me, the best would be a plain and simple USB 2.0 data cable. My basic instinct is telling me that it's better without any active chip / E-Mark chip in the cable, as it's totally not needed but can possibly introduce some problems. But I don't know this area. Can you help me?

This is the exact cable you need:

https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-USB-Type-C-Charger-Cable/dp/B01GGKYZQM/?th=1

 

[hyperknot]

The question we should have asked is: What model DAC are you using?

Various DACs <$300, mostly with XMOS USB chipset.

 

[hyperknot]

Of course - faulty and badly designed equipment has always existed.

But the existence of a chip to identify the capabilities of the cable specified by the standard will not harm the transmission if the cable is properly designed and manufactured. Just as a cable without the chip needs to be properly designed and manufactured.

IOW the existance or otherwise of the chip is not a reason to pick one cable over another. Actual overall cable quality is the issue.

I agree, but what I wanted to avoid was noname brands with a chip in them. I mean look at Amazon.de top USB cables:

How many of these brand names do you recognize? Now if possible, I'd like to avoid having any chip from any brand I've never heard of. Now it's good to know that in theory, the chips cannot affect the audio quality, but what if they short circuit for example? Is there absolutely no chance that it can damage my laptop?

Knowing that USB 2.0, 3 A cables don't have any chip whatsoever makes me worry-free about any potential issues with that chip. + Selecting from a reasonable brand of course also is a good idea.

 

[Music1969]

I agree, but what I wanted to avoid was noname brands with a chip in them. I mean look at Amazon.de top USB cables:

View attachment 231972

How many of these brand names do you recognize? Now if possible, I'd like to avoid having any chip from any brand I've never heard of. Now it's good to know that in theory, the chips cannot affect the audio quality, but what if they short circuit for example? Is there absolutely no chance that it can damage my laptop?

Knowing that USB 2.0, 3 A cables don't have any chip whatsoever makes me worry-free about any potential issues with that chip. + Selecting from a reasonable brand of course also is a good idea.

Amazon DE link:

https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Amazon-Basics-Type-Cable-Black/dp/B01GGKYZQM/

• The cable is USB-IF certified to meet USB 2.0 standard, backed by an Amazon Basics 1 year limited warranty

 

[ZolaIII]

@hyperknot as I said in the post #22.
It's great quality port's and TP-E (termo polimer elastine) casing on both like you get with quality stage/professional cables and it's nice soft and feals nice on tuch. It's branded (about which I really don't care as long as I get what I want) and not with a great availability (as long Sony is present on your market and selling phones I guess it will be available more so as they even started selling phones without one).
I have one which came with mob (A to C) that I abused for 4 years (for charging every day and data/DAC on the need be), still work's great.
When you find better one's please notify me, best regards.

 

[hyperknot]

Sony sounds good, although I'm afraid of counterfeits. Samsung accessories are for example is infamous for the high percentage of counterfeits, especially online.

Delock is a brand I can buy locally, and what I like in them is they are the only ones who list cable gauge and E-Marker chip brand and model, when present.

Their 2.0 cable is this: https://www.delock.com/produkt/83673/merkmale.html

 

[Music1969]

Sony sounds good, although I'm afraid of counterfeits. Samsung accessories are for example is infamous for the high percentage of counterfeits, especially online.

Delock is a brand I can buy locally, and what I like in them is they are the only ones who list cable gauge and E-Marker chip brand and model, when present.

Their 2.0 cable is this: https://www.delock.com/produkt/83673/merkmale.html

Amazon Basics at least mentions :

"The cable is USB-IF certified to meet USB 2.0 standard, backed by an Amazon Basics 1 year limited warranty"

Always best to stick to certified cables

 

[hyperknot]

Yes, with USB-IF the choice is basically Amazon Basics.

 

[Music1969]

Yes, with USB-IF the choice is basically Amazon Basics.

Why haven't you ordered it already

Stop looking elsewhere