Urgent help!!! Please help me decide Krell solo 575 vs Classe Omega

[Ashl777]

i would like some expert advice regarding measurements / specs relating to krell solo 575 monoblocks vs classe omega omicron. I curently own the krells but have opportunity to move to the classe. This will be driving bowers matrix 800 (the pointy triangle ones). Ill be pairing with either topping d90 , boulder 812 or mola mola tambaqui.

 

[Svend P]

All amplifiers sound the same. You could move to Purify or Hypex amplifiers and save a ton of money and space.

Double Blind tests *did* show amplifiers to sound different

In many online debates, position taken by some that when amplifiers are used that have flat frequency response and low distortion that no double blind tests have shown them to sound different. Well, I managed to dig up a 32 year old test that says otherwise. What is fascinating is that one of...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Ashl777]

Im sorry you can anyday come a double blind me on only swapping amp between a mcintosh 901 hybrid and a krell class a evo. Definitely have their own sound signature.

 

[MAB]

Im sorry you can anyday come a double blind me on only swapping amp between a mcintosh 901 hybrid and a krell class a evo. Definitely have their own sound signature.

Unless you are driving speakers with crazy low impedance, and high amplifier output impedance, no.
You should read up on the actual science and results of double blind testing of amps.
The amps you are claiming have distinct sound signatures are not of that category, nor are the speakers you use.

It's pretty sad the industry has brought the consumer to this situation. ASR is one of the few places where you can learn about how audio electronics actually reproduce the signal. Please study a bit more.

For instance, page 78:
https://americanradiohistory.com/Archive-HiFI-Stereo/80s/HiFi-Stereo-Review-1987-01.pdf
The rest of the magazine is great too. The store I worked at sold the Levinson amps, it really was no surprise that outside of trying to drive an pair of Apogee Scintillas or Infinity Kappas, amps had no sonic signature. Less so today, unless they are flawed.

David L. Clark organized many of these tests. This is behind a paywall, but it is worth the $30, will save many thousands of dollars of uncertainty.

AES Convention Papers Forum » Ten years of A/B/X Testing

The AES Forum is where our members get to interact with each other in between conferences and section meetings.

secure.aes.org

 

[Svend P]

Im sorry you can anyday come a double blind me on only swapping amp between a mcintosh 901 hybrid and a krell class a evo. Definitely have their own sound signature.

So does one of them have a frequency response like this? Otherwise, if they both measure ruler flat, how can they sound differently?

 

[Svend P]

You are not going to find the answers you seek on ASR. Our host said himself:

In my case, much more power. My monoblock amplifiers produce 800 watts per channel. But no way can I justify their $25,000 cost. They of course came out 15+ years ago. Today, i would by a Hypex/Purifi amplifier if I wanted lots of power. I would buy Topping if my needs were more modest. And if I wanted to save money, one of many chip based budget amplifiers.

Topping B200 Amplifier Review [Video]

Here is the video review of Topping B200 monoblock audio amplifier: Had a target of getting it done in 5 minutes but instead, it took 13 minutes. Play it at 2X the rate and it will come close to my target. :D Please subscribe to the channel. It is not monetized but like to make sure our...

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[Mart68]

Good speakers!

The Krells you have will drive any speaker with no noise or distortion and have massive amount of power. Why change them out?

If you want to change the balance of the system it's much better to use EQ than change the amp. Most perceived amp differences aren't real anyway.

 

[Ashl777]

Ran mono sound into trinnov altitude L and R. Level matched with ear both amps to a channel. I did not know what channel. Played same song ten times. Choose/guessed 100%. Krell had a sharp thinner sound with highs and seemed like very firm grip on lows. Mcintosh had warmer rolled sound probably with some enjoyable valve distortion. The signature was diffirent. Had girlfriend listen and got 3/3 right. Of course baffled with what we were doing.

 

[Ashl777]

Ran mono sound into trinnov altitude L and R. Level matched with ear both amps to a channel. I did not know what channel. Played same song ten times. Choose/guessed 100%. Krell had a sharp thinner sound with highs and seemed like very firm grip on lows. Mcintosh had warmer rolled sound probably with some enjoyable valve distortion. The signature was diffirent. Had girlfriend listen and got 3/3 right. Of course baffled with what we were doing.

I would like someone compare the publiished plots and see if there is something that correlates to my experience. Post started as question compairing plots of the krell solo 575. Vs classe omega omicron

 

[Ashl777]

The question was really comming to was that the krell is a/b (one of last products before dan left the company). The classe omega class a. Never had pure class a amp. And would it better/measure better only lookjng at published stats than the krell

 

[Svend P]

Level matched with ear both amps to a channel.

You need a digital multimeter for that. Small differences in volume will not seem louder, only like it is sounding better.

 

[Mart68]

The Classe amp and the Krell are both measured by Stereophile. From that information I wouldn't expect any difference. Maybe one of the experts here will think different but I doubt it.

Class A or AB in itself doesn't make an automatic difference to sound quality. The amp still has to have audible noise or distortion, or be load dependant, for it to have a chance of sounding different.

The Mcintosh - I can't find any measurements for that one - but it's two amplifiers in one, a tube and a solid state. Maybe it could be a little different.

 

[mglobe]

Im sorry you can anyday come a double blind me on only swapping amp between a mcintosh 901 hybrid and a krell class a evo. Definitely have their own sound signature.

The McIntosh has tubes in the signal chain. The Krell does not. I would expect these two to differ, and if you prefer the coloration of the tubes, that’s the kind of amp you should buy. If you prefer the solid state lack of coloration, buy one of those, but don’t spend a king’s ransom on one.

 

[Svend P]

The McIntosh has tubes in the signal chain. The Krell does not. I would expect these two to differ, and if you prefer the coloration of the tubes, that’s the kind of amp you should buy. If you prefer the solid state lack of coloration, buy one of those, but don’t spend a king’s ransom on one.

The audibility of tubes is questionable as far as I can see. It takes a lot of distortion before we actually can register it.

Are tubes more musical?

What is it that I’m hearing in my tube preamp and tubed headphone amp that is so romantic, warm, soft around the edges, and smooth, even syrupy sometimes? I’m not talking about hybrid amps or tube buffers. (My headphone amp is an OTL design, my preamp has no transistors in the audio circuit.) Do...

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[Sir Sanders Zingmore]

bowers matrix 800

Cool looking speakers, I had no idea B&W made anything like this.
They were measured by stereophile and seem to be a surprisingly easy load

Enough of the subjectivity; how did they measure? Impedance, shown in fig.1, was to the 4 ohm spec, with a minimum value of 3.4 ohms in the upper bass at 118Hz. A more detailed examination of the impedance at low frequencies revealed the port tuning to be low, centered on 23Hz, with a maximum impedance value of 16 ohms at 44Hz. Using a 1/3-octave warble tone centered on 1kHz gave an approximate sensitivity of 94dB/W/m, which is very high. Checking the drive level at moderately loud listening levels in Lewis's room revealed that the Krell KSA-250 was merely cruising, average signal levels rarely rising above 1V—¼W! Given the 800's relatively high impedance value in the treble, it would seem that, provided the amplifier is capable of driving 4 ohm loads, the 800 is an easier load to drive than its physical bulk would imply.

B&W Matrix 800 loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com

Sidebar 2: Measurements Normally, I ask reviewers to ship the products to Santa Fe for measurement once their listening sessions are over. In the case of B&W's immense 800, however, the Mountain—in the shape of Robert Harley, Stereophile's computerized test gear, and myself—decided it would be...

www.stereophile.com

I curently own the krells

I see absolutely zero reason to change from what you already have

 

[Mart68]

The audibility of tubes is questionable as far as I can see. It takes a lot of distortion before we actually can register it.

Are tubes more musical?

What is it that I’m hearing in my tube preamp and tubed headphone amp that is so romantic, warm, soft around the edges, and smooth, even syrupy sometimes? I’m not talking about hybrid amps or tube buffers. (My headphone amp is an OTL design, my preamp has no transistors in the audio circuit.) Do...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Tubes does mean there's an output transformer though so FR may change due to impedance. I can accept that it may sound a little different due to that.

 

[Crook]

"Had girlfriend listen and got 3/3 right. Of course baffled with what we were doing".

Class.

 

[Svend P]

I see absolutely zero reason to change from what you already have

He could get rid of the 262 W idle power consumption and the heat it generates.

 

[Mart68]

He could get rid of the 262 W idle power consumption and the heat it generates.

Yes but he's talking about moving to a class A amp with even more idle power consumption. Guessing the heat isn't an issue. Certainly isn't here in England where it's either freezing cold or at least a bit chilly most of the time anyway.

Only time I've ever had an issue with amplifier heat was on one exceptionally warm day while using a Krell KSA100 putting out 650 watts of heat. Room temperature was going up 1C every 30 minutes. Once it reached 30C even I had to call a halt.

 

[Ashl777]

Yes but he's talking about moving to a class A amp with even more idle power consumption. Guessing the heat isn't an issue. Certainly isn't here in England where it's either freezing cold or at least a bit chilly most of the time anyway.

Only time I've ever had an issue with amplifier heat was on one exceptionally warm day while using a Krell KSA100 putting out 650 watts of heat. Room temperature was going up 1C every 30 minutes. Once it reached 30C even I had to call a halt.

Heat is definitely something i realize will be issue going class a. Is going into a 170sqm around 765 cubic meters space and air conditioned. Was wondering looking only at measurements what would be better amp? For the 800 matrix. Both double and triple down in ohm load if the socket will provide. Re -sale the omegas will hold better value under our audio-fools me thinks