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Uptone refusing to sell me ISO Regen!!!

Blumlein 88

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He's made it all perfectly clear now. Can't believe the reams of hard evidence he produced. LOL
https://www.computeraudiophile.com/...o-regen-to-him/?do=findComment&comment=670928

Jud used similarly reasoning and approach about versions of Jriver at one time. Some new version had been released, and Jud plus another person said it was a step backwards. Independent of each other. It was a time when the Kunchur paper was a topic. I had sent him some tones with a .3 db difference which he was able to hear with some difficulty. He was surprised the difference was so hard to hear, and commented the differences in versions of Jriver were much, much more obvious. So we got wgscott to send him the two versions of Jriver changed to show only Jriver A and Jriver B. Jud proceeded to listen, and choose the version which previously was a step backward to him as the good one. Not enough samples to be definitive, and yet that should give one pause about how obvious something is until you don't see the label anymore. To Jud's credit he discussed all this publicly. Yet as is the norm for people, that experience didn't change his mind about how much he could trust his other similar perceptions like one Regen vs another.
 

Blumlein 88

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Swenson continues to amuse me. He is a very smooth talker who says his designs do this and that in questionable technical terms to improve what we hear, but he totally lacks the ability to measure it properly - at the output from a DAC. What kind of competent engineer does that? I believe you are smart enough not to enter the fray at CA, much as Swenson would not dare tangle with you here without his chorus of fan boys. I am convinced he is either quite myopically misguided or totally disingenuous.
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John Swenson's speakers (as of 3 or 4 years ago). Lowther coaxial driver. Yes suspended by wires as it improves the sound resolution.

"...my current speakers I call the bazooka, its a Lowther driver in a coaxial cardboard tube (smaller tube inside larger tube) based on some work done by Martin King. The picture also shows an early DAC test setup."

82013john2.jpg
 

RayDunzl

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There's nothing wrong with a little experimentation.

I've been guilty of that...
 

dallasjustice

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There's two schools of thought in audio. There's the science oriented folks. They are the real truth seekers. You'll know who they are because their opinions will change when presented new valid evidence. These are the companies and collections of engineers who have produced very different designs over the years.

The other group is the post modernist camp. It's deceptive to call this group subjectivist. They aren't subjectivist because they seek to use science terminology and even occasional test gear to confirm their post modernist worldview. Post modernists are not interested in rational debate. They totally reject the scientific method.

So what's the point of arguing with someone who has more in common with the great thinkers of the dark ages? There are people who still believe the world is flat. Would you waste your time arguing with them?

The only interesting thing is for someone to do at this point is to buy the new Uptone product and send it to Amir and BE. I bought the last one and sent it to Amir. So I think it's someone else's turn. I guarantee the donation to science is well worth the subsequent entertainment value.
 
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Fitzcaraldo215

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John Swenson's speakers (as of 3 or 4 years ago). Lowther coaxial driver. Yes suspended by wires as it improves the sound resolution.

"...my current speakers I call the bazooka, its a Lowther driver in a coaxial cardboard tube (smaller tube inside larger tube) based on some work done by Martin King. The picture also shows an early DAC test setup."

82013john2.jpg
I know, I know. I did not want to bring it up. But, anyone who knows anything about the sound of Lowthers has been in head slap mode - oh my God! - ever since Swenson knowlingly allowed these photos to be published years ago. He's proud of them, by golly! Duh!

For those not familiar with the wondrous Lowthers, that is a paper main cone plus a passive paper "whizzer" cone in there, not a separate tweeter, and it relies on acoustic/mechanical crossover. They are a 1940's design, with some "updates" since, mainly changed magnets in the 50's. Gotta keep the paper and the whizzer. They measure like crap, with little above 15k, after an unbelievably rough and peaky ride before that, thanks to the whizzer. Even the very retro Art Dudley, who once dabbled in them, has moved on many years ago. Oh, yeah, the bass is to die for from that nice little paper cone. Yeah, right. The cardboard tube baffles are nice complementary touches, except most Lowthers were horn loaded.

It seems to get worse. Swenson has no adequate audio measurement equipment by his own admission. He is a VLSI data transmission and signal processing engineer in his day job. So, it would seem that any audible proof of the pudding in his audio design experiments is, you guessed it, the sound from those very lovely Lowthers. Oh, yes, he has claimed to have designed his own tube DACS and electronics.

He is not an audio engineer, though many assume he is. He is just a DIY audio guy who happens to have a EE and a non-audio day job. I think he is seriously in way over his head in audio. But, he seems a nice, helpful, well spoken guy. Except, I would not want any more of anything he touches in audio.
 

Ron Party

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There's two schools of thought in audio. There's the science oriented folks. They are the real truth seekers. You'll know who they are because their opinions will change when presented new valid evidence. These are the companies and collections of engineers who have produced very different designs over the years.

The other group is the post modernist camp. It's deceptive to call this group subjectivist. They aren't subjectivist because they seek to use science terminology and even occasional test gear to confirm their post modernist worldview. Post modernists are not interested in rational debate. They totally reject the scientific method.

So what's the point of arguing with someone who has more in common with the great thinkers of the dark ages? There are people who still believe the world is flat. Would you waste your time arguing with them?

Deeply profound. For some reason(s), the on-line fora of audiophiles brings out the worst in people on both sides of the coin. It doesn't take much effort to ascertain those who seek the truth, however elusive it may be. The scientific method is, amongst other things, the study of the perceptual world. To deny this methodology is to deny rationalism. Real truth seekers as you so aptly put it are the epitome of intellectual honesty. No predispositions. No psuedo intellectualism. Just go where the reliable evidence takes them.
 

Sal1950

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Swenson continues to amuse me. He is a very smooth talker who says his designs do this and that in questionable technical terms to improve what we hear, but he totally lacks the ability to measure it properly - at the output from a DAC.
I have to laugh how no one (outside of a couple of us) ever take him to task. I can't count the number of times he's stated that "just in next few weeks" or what ever he is going to release a paper or ingenious measurements that will reveal his superior grasp of digital design. Or that he has this new piece of incredible, ground breaking measuring gear either coming or that he's just about finished designing.
The great unveiling is always just around the corner "trust me". :p
 

Sal1950

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Jud used similarly reasoning and approach about versions of Jriver at one time. Some new version had been released, and Jud plus another person said it was a step backwards. Independent of each other.
Jud is great at lawyer speak. He can do a great job at twisting a vague version of evidence into something that sounds like it supports his position. Not quite a Johnnie Cochran, but right along those lines. :D
 

jtwrace

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Jud is great at lawyer speak. He can do a great job at twisting a vague version of evidence into something that sounds like it supports his position. Not quite a Johnnie Cochran, but right along those lines. :D
I think I just heard...."If the measurements don't fit my belief you must acquit!"

:rolleyes:
 
OP
amirm

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He's made it all perfectly clear now. Can't believe the reams of hard evidence he produced. LOL
https://www.computeraudiophile.com/...o-regen-to-him/?do=findComment&comment=670928
Please go back to him and send him to this link: http://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/statistics-of-abx-testing.170/
Then summarize that a single trial by him gives us 50% chance that he heard a difference. If he did it again and got that one right, then it would give us 75%. To get to 95%, he needs to get 8 of 10 trials right.

So he did not pass any test let alone with flying colors. There are plenty of times where I thought I could hear a difference and got 3 to 4 outcomes right and then failed over and over again.
 
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amirm

amirm

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Amir, you can have my Regen. Tell me where to send it. Enjoy!
Hi JR. Thank you so much for the offer. To clarify though, do you have the original Regen or the new ISO? I already have the original and measured and published its results.
 

Blumlein 88

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Jud is great at lawyer speak. He can do a great job at twisting a vague version of evidence into something that sounds like it supports his position. Not quite a Johnnie Cochran, but right along those lines. :D

Hey none of us are immune to being influenced by habits from our day job or previous jobs. I give Jud more credit than that. He has always been honest even publicly even when it didn't make him look good. So while I disagree with him in many ways, I trust his honesty and integrity. I don't think he is pulling a Johnnie Cochran on us.

For that matter, as much as I hate it, Johnnie was doing what his profession obligated him to do. Providing the best possible defense for his client. That is how our legal system works. It is predicated on the idea that two most highly biased advocates on opposite sides give us a better chance at the truth. It is better than many methods though not what one would have come up with in a scientific sense.
 

March Audio

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There's two schools of thought in audio. There's the science oriented folks. They are the real truth seekers. You'll know who they are because their opinions will change when presented new valid evidence. These are the companies and collections of engineers who have produced very different designs over the years.

The other group is the post modernist camp. It's deceptive to call this group subjectivist. They aren't subjectivist because they seek to use science terminology and even occasional test gear to confirm their post modernist worldview. Post modernists are not interested in rational debate. They totally reject the scientific method.

So what's the point of arguing with someone who has more in common with the great thinkers of the dark ages? There are people who still believe the world is flat. Would you waste your time arguing with them?

The only interesting thing is for someone to do at this point is to buy the new Uptone product and send it to Amir and BE. I bought the last one and sent it to Amir. So I think it's someone else's turn. I guarantee the donation to science is well worth the subsequent entertainment value.

Im always happy to test equipment if people want to send it to me.

BTW I now have access to the Keysight u8903b audio analyser. Possibly not as good as the best AP, but very good nonetheless.

http://www.keysight.com/en/pdx-x202150-pn-U8903B/performance-audio-analyzer?cc=US&lc=eng
 
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JR4321

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Hi JR. Thank you so much for the offer. To clarify though, do you have the original Regen or the new ISO? I already have the original and measured and published its results.
Ahh, unfortunately, it's the original Regen.
 
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amirm

amirm

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Oh that's what I wasn't sure...the original one would be the USB one then?
They are both USB in and USB out. But yes, the original one did not provide galvanic isolation and the new one does.
 
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amirm

amirm

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Ahh, unfortunately, it's the original Regen.
Thanks for the sentiments anyway :).

As a summary for those who have not read the original Regen measurements, it actually added distortion products instead of reducing them. The levels of increase did not have an audible consequence but objectively the device did the opposite. That data was verified by two other sources, one was JA and the other was our member BE. I thought there was another source also but I did not see the confirmation of it.
 

NorthSky

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ISOlation REGENerates.
This new device ($325) is different than the original.

"Unlike the USB REGEN or any other similar product currently available, the ISO REGEN’s input uses the world’s only integrated high-speed USB isolator chip, the Silanna Semiconductor ICE08USB.

Why is this important—and why do you want an ISO REGEN? Because the music will sound better!"

_____

Almost 4,ooo units were sold worldwide (the original).
What is important in life? ...Money, power, successful career, family, friends, health, freedom, good sound?
I'd say good sound. :) ...Nah,, I'm just kidding; it's a good balance of all good things living and human equality/quality of life.

We do what we do because we are animated, like Coraline, like Ratatouille, like UP.
_____

Amir, when you first started posting pictures from the last audio show you went to (L.A. Audio Show); I noticed the products and brands on display.
It is a simple observation, nothing more.
 
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amirm

amirm

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Amir, when you first started posting pictures from the last audio show you went to; I noticed the products and brands on display.
It is a simple observation, nothing more.
You mean close ups of the gear? If so, I decided to not do that this show. The volume of pictures gets out of control and then takes me too long to post them. By then I forget some of the impressions of the rooms.

I also don't know how interesting it is to see the front panel of every piece of equipment. Would like to see some feedback on that.

Also, the images are from my 50 megapixel camera. So I can zoom in fair amount and pull out details of what is in the racks if someone needs to know.
 
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