- Thread Starter
- #381
Ah, OK. Thank you.YES. Completely.
Ah, OK. Thank you.YES. Completely.
Good grief. I could say it's sunny and the sky is blue and you guys would argue about that until it was dark.
There was no insult in there. My system produced audio with identical functionality with and without ISO Regen. If on the other hand I take out my high-end DAC, it stops working. This is what I was saying.
Oh for F's sake. Only about 30% of the people who buy our product use it with the Mean Well. You two just can't let go.
And as for Amir's lovely insults, go sling the same at the rest of the makers in this space.
Thomas: You wonder why ASR gets slammed for bias and nastiness? All that spinning and defense you put up (at CA yesterday) goes right out the window when your "partner" continues the smear.
I'm done here. Have way too many more worthwhile things to do with my time.
I realize if someone has bought the device, they would not feel good about objective data that says the attributes that they heard, may not be there. That can't be helped.Not only is it insulting to me, but also to the 1,000s of people who have bought our products and raved about in great detail what they heard.
I am not doing that. What I am relying on is understanding of audio engineering, psychoacoustics, and measurements we have performed. All the arrows point to the same conclusion.Really you are putting your own ears and judgement on a pedestal above everyone else. But of course you don't see that.
Alex, did you force Chris to lock the thread over at CA because you were loosing it on all grounds ? I am not accusing, just asking
Tbh amir has come to a conclusion about your device, one based on the measurements he's take combined with his own knowledge base in this area. So to him it indeed does not do a great deal. You have offered no objective evidence to back its function plus the few theories you presented to counter the psu debacle were proved false . Theories that you presented with a deal more spite and malice imo than anything here i might add.Oh for F's sake. Only about 30% of the people who buy our product use it with the Mean Well. You two just can't let go.
And as for Amir's lovely insults, go sling the same at the rest of the makers in this space.
Thomas: You wonder why ASR gets slammed for bias and nastiness? All that spinning and defense you put up (at CA yesterday) goes right out the window when your "partner" continues the smear.
I'm done here. Have way too many more worthwhile things to do with my time.
No, and Chris was very generous to allow such a thread. If that kind of thing sprung up here I'd probably of shut it down way before things got personal but Chris allowed all sides to have a say and I thank him for the opportunity.Alex, did you force Chris to lock the thread over at CA because you were loosing it on all grounds ? I am not accusing, just asking
I agree, it's been deleted.That sure looks like--with your emoticon--an accusation, but no, I had ZERO to do with it.
Our products--like those of virtually every other high-end manufacturer--are designed both on the bench and in the listening room. Ask 100 other designers--call Charlie Hansen, Paul McGowan, Conrad-Johnson, whoever--and they will ALL tell you that listening is a key component of production development. And we are talking down to small parts changes too.
Do any of them organize and conduct "controlled listening tests" that would satisfy all you DBT-devotees? No! They are all to busy doing real work, and their systems are good enough and known well enough that with their own reference recordings they can make their determinations very quickly. Single-variable tests. A/B/A/B.
Good grief it took 15 seconds for me to pick which of the hub chips we preferred and separately to hear how clearly better--and worthwhile to use--is the Crystek 575 clock.
I know all this is hard for people who have not spent decades intimately involved in the design process of fine audio components to accept this fact. But next time you are at an audio show, talk to a few engineers about their process.
Didn't know of M Tucker. Watched a few youtubies of him. Ah...okay I guess.Oh @Superdad if you are going to flounce out of here feel free to go full Malcom tucker.. just make it good, if it's brilliantly done and the swearing it nigh on poetic il leave it in and even might give you a free pass back after the dust settles. ( but you can't flounce twice so don't go off half cocked ok! )
I'm thinking of doing a flounce of the year prize so don't waste the opportunity
.... no pressure
Tbh amir has come to a conclusion about your device, one based on the measurements he's take combined with his own knowledge base in this area. So to him it indeed does not do a great deal. You have offered no objective evidence to back its function....
.......
To many here and indeed many folks that want to see more than " I heard it so it must be true" devices like yours ( going back to your defence that all audio engineers do as you do, that's daft as your device is a tweak a extra. It could have no function, be a pass through essentially the same potential does not exist with amps, dac speakers etc) represent a deep insult in themselves.
....
But, did you find out why the chip sounded better (giving you the benefit of the doubt lets assume it did).
Did you validate your subjective experience? If you didnt, and you didnt /couldnt measure anything tangible, then you are just playing at specmanship putting a bunch of components together that on paper sound like a good idea. ooh the lower phase noise clock must be better - therefore with your expectation bias you find subjectively that it is. No surprises there. Thats not engineering, thats garden shed. Do you even possess a spectrum analyser?
I would say the same about the designers you mention if that is indeed how they operate. Only in the domestic audio engineering field would this happen.
How about you make a short list of the things your device is supposed to do. Then you provide measurements proving your theory and Amir does a peer review of your measurements. Should be simple enough? I personally don't want to destroy businesses of well meaning individuals but at the same time the consumer has been taken for a ride way too many times in the audio industry and we need some accountability.[Typing on a iPad here so excuse the rough cuts and lack of multi-quote.]
So Amir comes to a conclusion about our device based on his limited testing and focus on one particular area. And thus is dismissing an entire segment of the computer audio device market--essentially everything upstream of the DAC (server, power supplies, USB cards, galvanic isolators, USB cables, and signal generators) as being useless "trinkets, snake oil, and pet rocks" because his 12KHz AP FFT does not show him anything.
Early astronomers mistook a lot of what they observed as did doctors before more advanced test instruments came along. Heck, aspirin was deemed effective 70 years before its mechanism was understood.
But it is complete BS to say that our device does nothing, has no function, and that we have not published its effect on the USB signal. I can't paste in before/after eye-patterns (typing on iPad), but they kick off this thread and the significant improvement in signal integrity can be readily seen:
https://www.computeraudiophile.com/...mpressions-kicked-off-with-some-measurements/
Of course Amir and the rest of you want to look at the other end of the elephant, but the fact is, the ISO REGEN performs its functions quite objectively. If a patient workes out an improves his cardiovascular condition, but the doctor just uses a stethoscope and says to cough--is that really enough to say "no improvement?"
And again, "objective evidence to back its function"? Did he test the galvanic isolation of our device? No? Why not? It's right in the name.
As for your "shit the bed and cry" comment, I have no idea what you are talking about Thomas. Maybe you should grow up a bit (I'm sure I'm 20 years your senior) and learn to edit your long rambling, mostly non-sensical posts. Figure out what it is you actually want to communicate and focus on that.
Yes, the hub chip we chose ended up being the one with the best signal integrity as seen in our eye-patterns. But as it happened, we did not know that until after we had listened to the 3 sets of boards we had built (these are surface mount QFN and BGA parts so it is not as if we could have measured the devices before building sets of boards, and they were delivered from our board house to my place first--so naturally I took a listen before the measurements.
Boy you are an obnoxious ass. Yes we have a spectrum analyzer. And how about you show and tell us about all the audio components you have designed, built, sold and supported? (I assume you know that UpTone is not my first outing? Google Hovland Company.)
How many engineers in the high-end do you know personally? There are at least 70 who have known me personally for a couple of decades. As in, I could walk up to them at CES or Munich and they would remember my name without my wearing a name badge. And I've sold quite a few REGENs and UltraCap LPS-1 power supplies to other prominent manufacturers. Ask Ted Smith, Bascom King, Arnie Nudell, or Paul McGowan--all of PS Audio about our products. Or Jeurgen Reis of MBL. Or Charlie Hansen. I could go on. But next time you are at a show--assuming you travel to such--do interview a couple of designers about their process.
Oh, by the way, assuming your BE718 moniker and speaker avatar refers to Usher Loudspeakers, there was a time, about 9 years ago, when Usher utilized the MusiCap film-and-foil polypropylene capacitors (which I and my Hovland partners developed in the 1980s and which have been in continuous production and sale for 30 years this very year) in the crossovers of their top models--as have and do dozens of other well-known loudspeaker and electronics OEMs. And they don't do it because our parts are cheap--they are not--nor because of the brand since some have made us promise not to disclose their usage.
Of course neither you nor Amir will have the gear to measure the sonic effects of a fine film capacitor. But good luck getting our clients (or the clients of other preferred cap brands) to switch brands.
[Typing on a iPad here so excuse the rough cuts and lack of multi-quote.]
So Amir comes to a conclusion about our device based on his limited testing and focus on one particular area. And thus is dismissing an entire segment of the computer audio device market--essentially everything upstream of the DAC (server, power supplies, USB cards, galvanic isolators, USB cables, and signal generators) as being useless "trinkets, snake oil, and pet rocks" because his 12KHz AP FFT does not show him anything.
Early astronomers mistook a lot of what they observed as did doctors before more advanced test instruments came along. Heck, aspirin was deemed effective 70 years before its mechanism was understood.
But it is complete BS to say that our device does nothing, has no function, and that we have not published its effect on the USB signal. I can't paste in before/after eye-patterns (typing on iPad), but they kick off this thread and the significant improvement in signal integrity can be readily seen:
https://www.computeraudiophile.com/...mpressions-kicked-off-with-some-measurements/
Of course Amir and the rest of you want to look at the other end of the elephant, but the fact is, the ISO REGEN performs its functions quite objectively. If a patient workes out an improves his cardiovascular condition, but the doctor just uses a stethoscope and says to cough--is that really enough to say "no improvement?"
And again, "objective evidence to back its function"? Did he test the galvanic isolation of our device? No? Why not? It's right in the name.
As for your "shit the bed and cry" comment, I have no idea what you are talking about Thomas. Maybe you should grow up a bit (I'm sure I'm 20 years your senior) and learn to edit your long rambling, mostly non-sensical posts. Figure out what it is you actually want to communicate and focus on that.
... But 99% of the people are not. ...