Uptone ISO Regen Review and Measurements

[Blumlein 88]

If it is doable without much trouble, it might be nice to use the 3 series connected Amazon USB cables that cause the audible issues and record it into an audio file. That way people could download it and hear what the plain connection vs the ISO Regen connection sounded like. And since it is so easy to think of tests for someone else to do. Maybe a few minutes of a file to see if the data transfer with and without the Regen is bit perfect or has errors.

 

[Thomas savage]

don't know - they just do maybe its measurable, maybe not. Just like two different DAC chips sounds different when feed the same signal.

Quick, escape down here while no ones looking .. the brothers get twitchy when you start claiming audible differences between DAC chips and the like but I will hide you while it all blows over

 

[Jinjuku]

Its interesting, the only measurable differences you can find in the DAC outputs have been detrimental to its performance with the Regen in circuit. Havent the Uptone fan boys twigged whats happening yet? That if they are hearing differences (highly doubtful), they are mistakenly identifying degradation as improvement. Hohoho.

I certainly never discounted that as a possibility. People can make stuff to sound different and then market that difference.

 

[Jinjuku]

A very big thanks to Amir for doing all of this. It is great to see all this objective data that does prove the ISOR is a mixed bag of tricks and not simply a device that does nothing.

It also provides a way forward as it's more than reasonable for someone to get a Behringer UMC204HD for it's Analog inputs and use a product like ARTA to see what their DAC is doing with and without an isolation product.

 

[amirm]

If it is doable without much trouble, it might be nice to use the 3 series connected Amazon USB cables that cause the audible issues and record it into an audio file. That way people could download it and hear what the plain connection vs the ISO Regen connection sounded like. And since it is so easy to think of tests for someone else to do. Maybe a few minutes of a file to see if the data transfer with and without the Regen is bit perfect or has errors.

You read my mind. It was a bit of effort since I needed to use the Behringer for both output and input and Foobar would open it exclusively. So to get around that, I used Dshow for input for Audition to record it, and Foobar to play it.

The outcome sounds a bit different without Iso Regen which is natural given the random coiling of the cable than yesterday. They are also recorded in mono whereas yesterday I was listening in stereo. Still, I think it makes the same point. Both cases use two 10 foot extension cables with a short USB cable I have been using all along. In other words, the USB signal is highly degraded prior to reaching Iso Regen or the Behringer:

Behringer direct (no ISO Regen): https://www.dropbox.com/s/rdbweo5mkxsocpt/Behringer Extension cable without Iso Regen.wav?dl=0
Behringer through Iso Regen: https://www.dropbox.com/s/h36zguooded28l4/Behringer Extension cable with Iso Regen.wav?dl=0

Let me know what you think!

 

[Blumlein 88]

I'll give it a try when I get back home.

I cannot be sure as it will vary a bit from device to device, but I think a DAW would have let you both play and record at once. Reaper is free to download and try with no restrictions and inexpensive to purchase.

 

[amirm]

I cannot be sure as it will vary a bit from device to device, but I think a DAW would have let you both play and record at once.

It does but not when Asio is being used by Foobar. At least it didn't work when I tried it last. Regardless, the new method worked given the fact that the recording didn't need to be instrument grade for this purpose.

 

[amirm]

Behringer direct (no ISO Regen): https://www.dropbox.com/s/rdbweo5mkxsocpt/Behringer Extension cable without Iso Regen.wav?dl=0
Behringer through Iso Regen: https://www.dropbox.com/s/h36zguooded28l4/Behringer Extension cable with Iso Regen.wav?dl=0

I should add that these links play right in the browser. Dropbox provides a player so you don't need to download anything. You can even listen to them on your phone or tablet. Just use a headphone although even tiny speakers should demonstrate the effect.

 

[Jinjuku]

You read my mind. It was a bit of effort since I needed to use the Behringer for both output and input and Foobar would open it exclusively. So to get around that, I used Dshow for input for Audition to record it, and Foobar to play it.

The outcome sounds a bit different without Iso Regen which is natural given the random coiling of the cable than yesterday. They are also recorded in mono whereas yesterday I was listening in stereo. Still, I think it makes the same point. Both cases use two 10 foot extension cables with a short USB cable I have been using all along. In other words, the USB signal is highly degraded prior to reaching Iso Regen or the Behringer:

Behringer direct (no ISO Regen): https://www.dropbox.com/s/rdbweo5mkxsocpt/Behringer Extension cable without Iso Regen.wav?dl=0
Behringer through Iso Regen: https://www.dropbox.com/s/h36zguooded28l4/Behringer Extension cable with Iso Regen.wav?dl=0

Let me know what you think!

The direct cabling to the Behringer certainly has fewer errors.

 

[Jinjuku]

I should add that these links play right in the browser. Dropbox provides a player so you don't need to download anything. You can even listen to them on your phone or tablet. Just use a headphone although even tiny speakers should demonstrate the effect.

BTW FireFox is coming out with an enhancement to share files directly.

https://send.firefox.com

links expire in 24 hours.

 

[Blumlein 88]

It does but not when Asio is being used by Foobar. At least it didn't work when I tried it last. Regardless, the new method worked given the fact that the recording didn't need to be instrument grade for this purpose.

Yes the DAW will be exclusive just like Foobar. But the DAW usually will let you play one 'track' in the DAW, and record another 'track' in the DAW all in the one piece of software. The recording will be the looped back signal having gone out and back in. Again though it can vary with different types of gear. So maybe not with the Behringer.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Okay, listened right quick. You gave us 8 or 9 seconds of Fiona. 2 seconds would have been enough. Clearly the Regen didn't help, it hurt in this very marginal signal situation. Even over a phone you can hear the clearly obvious difference. All we need now are people who trust their ears to simply listen.

Also, Alex is still complaining this is a problem with AC leakage on the DC line of the USB into the AP. This recording was probably with no AP in use was it not?

 

[amirm]

Also, Alex is still complaining this is a problem with AC leakage on the DC line of the USB into the AP. This recording was probably with no AP in use was it not?

Correct. I just played with the Behringer DAC, looped its analog output to its input, and recorded that.

 

[Jinjuku]

Okay, listened right quick. You gave us 8 or 9 seconds of Fiona. 2 seconds would have been enough. Clearly the Regen didn't help, it hurt in this very marginal signal situation. Even over a phone you can hear the clearly obvious difference. All we need now are people who trust their ears to simply listen.

Also, Alex is still complaining this is a problem with AC leakage on the DC line of the USB into the AP. This recording was probably with no AP in use was it not?

You beat me to it:

Computer<>USB Cable<>ISOR / No ISOR <> Behringer DA looped into AD. So only two possible power supplies:

The computer and the unit on the Regen.

This would also be the test setup if using ARTA.

 

[Sal1950]

I should add that these links play right in the browser. Dropbox provides a player so you don't need to download anything. You can even listen to them on your phone or tablet. Just use a headphone although even tiny speakers should demonstrate the effect.

Humm, Listened to here just clicking on Play from within the Dropbox player
The file without the regen has some irregular popping static occurring maybe 3 or 4 times a second, akin to a VERY dirty LP.
The file with the regen is has a solid background of static, like listening to a very weak AM radio station.
Very obvious differences

 

[Deleted member 65]

My votes on a scale from 1 - 100 (1 best, 100 worst):

80: Behringer direct (no ISO Regen): Sounds exactly as my Cream record Wheels of Fire, regular cracks stemming from parties at that time.

100: Behringer through Iso Regen: Half damaged tweeter or FM station not dialled in

 

[blackmetalboon]

It's been interesting following this debate across various forums!

I've only got into computer based audio this year and my set up is as follows;

HTPC > DAC > Pre-Amp > Power Amp

To the best of my knowledge there are 5 SMPS's involved, I guess the ISO Regen isn't for me then!!!

 

[HedgeHog]

Humm, Listened to here just clicking on Play from within the Dropbox player
The file without the regen has some irregular popping static occurring maybe 3 or 4 times a second, akin to a VERY dirty LP.
The file with the regen is has a solid background of static, like listening to a very weak AM radio station.
Very obvious differences

Yup...online and downloaded versions of both files pop and scratches. Yikes.

 

[Jinjuku]

It's been interesting following this debate across various forums!

I've only got into computer based audio this year and my set up is as follows;

HTPC > DAC > Pre-Amp > Power Amp

To the best of my knowledge there are 5 SMPS's involved, I guess the ISO Regen isn't for me then!!!

Agreed. The whole: Most of our customers don't have any SMPS driven gear... Sounds like making an excuse.

 

[pinkupanda]

Agreed. The whole: Most of our customers don't have any SMPS driven gear... Sounds like making an excuse.

Uptone is caught up with its own gimmick - so he expects most of his customers to use high-end audio equipment and expensive linear power supplies with lowest leakage current to show the real strength of $325 ISO-Regen ? Really ? So if you have 3 SMPS in your chain, expect to replace them with $3k worth of LPS in order to use the ISO-R