Uptone ISO Regen Review and Measurements

[cpcat]

Isolation can be useful and this device may indeed accomplish that. Just don't look to it to change the sound beyond that.

FYI, I have a friend with an Lampi and he complains about severe ground loop/hum as well.

The Lampi forces you to minimize any ground issues because the tubes are so sensitive to noise. This I was able to achieve and likely this improved my sound overall as a separate exercise, as I didn‘t realize I had the noise before.

The USB part was difficult to solve—however the Iso Regen solved it for me.

 

[chris719]

The Lampi forces you to minimize any ground issues because the tubes are so sensitive to noise.

This is not true. Lampizator products generally have issues because they are poorly designed. Have you seen what they look like inside? It is no surprise they have poor immunity and susceptibility.

 

[cpcat]

Signing off - back to where I was before.

Y’all enjoy!

 

[cpcat]

This is not true. Lampizator products generally have issues because they are poorly designed. Have you seen what they look like inside? It is no surprise they have poor immunity and susceptibility.[/QUOTE

Ok not leaving just yet. Just curious -have you ever owned a Lampizator product?

 

[chris719]

Ok not leaving just yet. Just curious -have you ever owned a Lampizator product?

No, because I know what a bad design looks like when I see one. Maybe his newer stuff isn't as bad, hopefully. I saw the internals of some of his earlier products and that was enough for me.

 

[amirm]

The Lampi forces you to minimize any ground issues because the tubes are so sensitive to noise.

There is no reason a tube design to be sensitive to noise. It is the job of the designer to build a noise-free product, not the user. It is like buying a car and have it not come with a transmission and for you to supply that....

 

[cpcat]

There is no reason a tube design to be sensitive to noise. It is the job of the designer to build a noise-free product, not the user. It is like buying a car and have it not come with a transmission and for you to supply that....

I did not say the design was sensitive to noise, I said the tubes were.

 

[cpcat]

No, because I know what a bad design looks like when I see one. Maybe his newer stuff isn't as bad, hopefully. I saw the internals of some of his earlier products and that was enough for me.

Ok. So did you at least see/touch one in person or are you just speaking from photos you have seen on the internet?
If in person, did you listen to it?

I ask this because you seem to have formed a strongly negative opinion of the company I decided to purchase my DAC from, and have chosen to express that here for whatever reason.

 

[AdamG]

Ok. So did you at least see/touch one in person or are you just speaking from photos you have seen on the internet?
If in person, did you listen to it?

I ask this because you seem to have formed a strongly negative opinion of the company I decided to purchase my DAC from, and have chosen to express that here for whatever reason.

Welcome Aboard @cpcat.

 

[SIY]

Ok. So did you at least see/touch one in person or are you just speaking from photos you have seen on the internet?
If in person, did you listen to it?

Yes. It's some of the very worst gear ever foisted on unsuspecting audiophiles. The performance matches the construction.

 

[cpcat]

Yes. It's some of the very worst gear ever foisted on unsuspecting audiophiles. The performance matches the construction.

Ok nice to meet you SIY. The question wasn’t directed to you but thanks for responding. So since you responded Yes what DAC did you have?

You guys seem to have quite the gang -up thing going here and it appears the rep of this forum is well earned!

 

[BDWoody]

The question wasn’t directed to you but thanks for responding.

If you don't want general replies on a public forum, you can use the Private Message function.

You feel ganged up on when it is pointed out that your component is not well regarded from an engineering perspective? That's a shame. It isn't a personal thing...

 

[SIY]

Ok nice to meet you SIY. The question wasn’t directed to you but thanks for responding. So since you responded Yes what DAC did you have?

You guys seem to have quite the gang -up thing going here and it appears the rep of this forum is well earned!

The leap from “see/touch one in person” to “have” tells me it’s time to doff my hat and bow out.

 

[cpcat]

Alright, so I came here last night in part because I was very excited and relieved to have my USB ground loop issue solved by the ISO Regen. I had previously read this thread in entirety, as well as others here , and am grateful for Amir’s willingness to measure various devices and post them as well as others‘ contribution here.

I gave my backstory and my experience with the device. Maybe I got a little loose with one of my comments in the initial post- just edited.

My ground loop is gone completely and I am very happy with the result and couldn’t be happier with how my system sounds.

That’s really all there was to it. Peace to all.

Charles

 

[DonH56]

The Ethernet standard is galvanically isolated so something must have been wrong there. Another (cheaper) router or switch may have solved that problem, but if the ISO Regen works then your problem is solved.

Tubes are not intrinsically more sensitive to noise, not sure where that is from, and @SIY certainly knows that as well as any engineer who has designed or worked with tubes (which includes a large but fading number of us).

 

[cpcat]

The Ethernet standard is galvanically isolated so something must have been wrong there. Another (cheaper) router or switch may have solved that problem, but if the ISO Regen works then your problem is solved.

Tubes are not intrinsically more sensitive to noise, not sure where that is from, and @SIY certainly knows that as well as any engineer who has designed or worked with tubes (which includes a large but fading number of us).

I am using USB direct from the PC to the DAC-although the PC is attached to the home network via Ethernet-maybe that is what you are saying? Anyway, as part of my diagnostic trial I took the PC out of the closet and moved it next to the DAC, hooked it via short USB regular (non repeater) cable and the ground loop was still there even without an Ethernet connection. I plugged in an old laptop at the same location as well and NO ground loop even with Ethernet connection. So, to me there was a problem somewhere in my PC’s USB output/power supply/ground- which I ultimately fixed/patched with the ISO Regen.

With regards to tube noise, my experience differs, but maybe someone here can explain. Below is a pic of the DAC. It is a balanced design and the 4 tubes in the rear are the L/R halves and +/- of the balanced pair. The rectifier is in the front.

Even after solving the ground loop over USB, I still had a buzz/hum that was fairly loud with the DAC‘s volume control bypassed- but mainly in the left channel. I use one of the DAC’s analog inputs as a “home theater bypass” to integrate the 5ch/HT part of the system, so need to be able to run it near unity gain on that input and have it quiet.

The output tubes are RCA 112a’s (DHT’s, a 300b-similar tube) which are supposedly NOS but also 85+ yrs old! When I swapped the front LR (-) tubes the noise then flipped to the right channel. I have 2 spare 112a’s and so I popped a spare in the R(-) socket and now everything is quiet-well very close. I also tried the other spare but it was not as quiet, although better than the initial one. I now have two spare tubes, one I marked “noisy” and the other as “slightly noisy” for future reference.

It could be this is simply a tube matching issue in the balanced pair circuit which I have also considered, but still, that IS a tube issue, not a design issue, agree?

 

[DonH56]

I am using USB direct from the PC to the DAC-although the PC is attached to the home network via Ethernet-maybe that is what you are saying? Anyway, as part of my diagnostic trial I took the PC out of the closet and moved it next to the DAC, hooked it via short USB regular (non repeater) cable and the ground loop was still there even without an Ethernet connection. I plugged in an old laptop at the same location as well and NO ground loop even with Ethernet connection. So, to me there was a problem somewhere in my PC’s USB output/power supply/ground- which I ultimately fixed/patched with the ISO Regen.

With regards to tube noise, my experience differs, but maybe someone here can explain. Below is a pic of the DAC. It is a balanced design and the 4 tubes in the rear are the L/R halves and +/- of the balanced pair. The rectifier is in the front.

Even after solving the ground loop over USB, I still had a buzz/hum that was fairly loud with the DAC‘s volume control bypassed- but mainly in the left channel. I use one of the DAC’s analog inputs as a “home theater bypass” to integrate the 5ch/HT part of the system, so need to be able to run it near unity gain on that input and have it quiet.

The output tubes are RCA 112a’s (DHT’s, a 300b-similar tube) which are supposedly NOS but also 85+ yrs old! When I swapped the front LR (-) tubes the noise then flipped to the right channel. I have 2 spare 112a’s and so I popped a spare in the R(-) socket and now everything is quiet-well very close. I also tried the other spare but it was not as quiet, although better than the initial one. I now have two spare tubes, one I marked “noisy” and the other as “slightly noisy” for future reference.

It could be this is simply a tube matching issue in the balanced pair circuit which I have also considered, but still, View attachment 131362that IS a tube issue, not a design issue, agree?

I am sorry, I thought you said it was to isolate your Ethernet cable. USB is another matter and they are prone to ground loops, at least IME.

A buzz or hiss can be almost anything from a bad tube (you can have bad transistors, too, it is just less likely) to poor design. Sounds like you just had a bad, or worn-out, tube. That is certainly possible if not likely but does not mean that tubes are more sensitive to noise, you just had a bad tube.

 

[cpcat]

I am sorry, I thought you said it was to isolate your Ethernet cable. USB is another matter and they are prone to ground loops, at least IME.

A buzz or hiss can be almost anything from a bad tube (you can have bad transistors, too, it is just less likely) to poor design. Sounds like you just had a bad, or worn-out, tube. That is certainly possible if not likely but does not mean that tubes are more sensitive to noise, you just had a bad tube.

So as far as I was concerned the tube was fine at regular listening levels, but -as I described -the tube produced noise at full volume without signal- and this means it was a “a bad tube”? Well, I would tend to agree, BUT I‘d think the better characterization would be “noisy tube” . Or, either, it did not match inside the quad as it should.

I guess if I had a tube tester it would add valuable data to the discussion. Maybe I need to get one-but the seller was legitimate, as far as I could tell, and the tubes came in original boxes unopened -I literally had to tear the old boxes apart to get them out (In spite of my ocd nature to preserve them at all costs!)

Thanks for the discussion/advice.

Charles

 

[DonH56]

So as far as I was concerned the tube was fine at regular listening levels, but -as I described -the tube produced noise at full volume without signal- and this means it was a “a bad tube”? Well, I would tend to agree, BUT I‘d think the better characterization would be “noisy tube” . Or, either, it did not match inside the quad as it should.

I guess if I had a tube tester it would add valuable data to the discussion. Maybe I need to get one-but the seller was legitimate as far as I could tell and the tubes came in original boxes unopened and I literally had to tear the old things apart to get them out.

Thanks for the discussion/advice.

Charles

I suppose "noisy" works as well. I have not been following/reading closely, other things going on in Life right now. Many tube circuits do have more noise for a variety of reasons, and listening for hiss at full volume with no signal is not necessarily a test of a bad tube (or design). There are tube designs that would probably pass such a test, and a great many solid-state designs that would not. It depends upon the SNR (signal-to-noise ratio) of the circuits and gains through the system. If there is no noise at the listening position and normal volumes then I'd argue that is not a problem.

 

[cpcat]

Thanks!