Uptone ISO Regen Review and Measurements

[maxxevv]

Outside of this thread, of the objective comments I have read in other threads/forums, they usually point out that secondary USB reclockers such as the ISO Regen only make "useful" / noticeable improvements if and only if the USB source itself has obvious noise issues.

A basic mains noise filter might be a better spend of money in my opinion, especially if your DAC already has XMOS or Amanero input interfaces.

 

[RayDunzl]

Outside of this thread, of the objective comments I have read in other threads/forums, they usually point out that secondary USB reclockers such as the ISO Regen only make "useful" / noticeable improvements if and only if the USB source itself has obvious noise issues.

I would change the bolded to say something like "if and only if the DAC (or whatever) can't already properly handle the signal/power provided by everyday USB sources".

But what you said they said is probably correct, in that that's what they said.

 

[maxxevv]

I would change the bolded to say something like "if and only if the DAC (or whatever) can't already properly handle the signal/power provided by everyday USB sources".

But what you said they said is probably correct, in that that's what they said.

"....especially if your DAC already has XMOS or Amanero input interfaces. "

Well, that's what the last part of the sentence is addressing right ?

 

[RayDunzl]

Well, that's what the last part of the sentence is addressing right ?

I'm sorry. It's above my pay grade to know everything.

I "think" USB sources are highly likely to have noise issues. Computer output, the little wireless boxes, phones, cheap cables run at their distance limit, source/sink on separate ground circuits, whatever.

So, I took issue with the "if and only if the USB source itself has obvious noise issues". I'd just assume that they do, and the receiver will have to deal with it.

"....especially if your DAC already has XMOS or Amanero input interfaces. "

I briefly looked.

Amanero seems to be a board (with an Atmel chip) - implementation may be less of a problem, as it is a more complete solution for getting the bits out of the wire, still subject to local power and ground issues, I suppose.

Xmos - seems to be a chip - so the implementation could still be subject to problems, depending on how well the designer integrates the chip.

---

Feel free to correct me some more.

Maybe I'm missing the point entirely.

 

[DonH56]

Outside of this thread, of the objective comments I have read in other threads/forums, they usually point out that secondary USB reclockers such as the ISO Regen only make "useful" / noticeable improvements if and only if the USB source itself has obvious noise issues.

I would have said "if the USB source has noise issues and/or the DAC is (too) sensitive to that noise". If the DAC provides adequate power and ground isolation, isolates/buffers the data stream, and generates a clean internal clock (e.g. galvanic or other power/ground isolation, asynchronous design, stable low-noise internal clock), then an external isolator/reclocker/retimer/whatever is not required. Many if not most DACs Amir has tested appear to fit those criteria.

PCs are usually pretty noisy devices, so I would hope a DAC manufacturer would assume the worst and design the best circuits to handle the obvious noise/jitter sources.

 

[grigorianvlad]

Thanks, everyone, for pointing out that ISO Regen may be of limited value with a Mytek Brooklyn DAC+. I stumbled on this forum to research the benefits before buying one and RayDunzl told me to read up on the AMirR's measurement in the beginning of this thread.
I got an SoTM tx-USBultra instead. That device goes a bit further. Not only it deals with the noise, it also offers a reclocking system with an iIsolated differential clock signal circuit. It removes jitter, the main enemy here.
Both the Mytek and the SoTM are powered by ultra low noise linear power supply Keces P8. The Keces has two zones (meaning it can power two products at the same time) and switchable voltage and up 4.2Amp each. As you can see in the pictures, the Mytek only consumes 1Amp and the SoTM only 0.5Amp with or without the headphones, at any volume.
The benefit of the SoTM USB conditioner/reclocker is subtle, but it is there, mostly larger image, more vivid details and deeper stage. The benefit of the external power supply is tighter bass and better dynamics.

 

[Fitzcaraldo215]

Thanks, everyone, for pointing out that ISO Regen may be of limited value with a Mytek Brooklyn DAC+. I stumbled on this forum to research the benefits before buying one and RayDunzl told me to read up on the AMirR's measurement in the beginning of this thread.
I got an SoTM tx-USBultra instead. That device goes a bit further. Not only it deals with the noise, it also offers a reclocking system with an iIsolated differential clock signal circuit. It removes jitter, the main enemy here.
Both the Mytek and the SoTM are powered by ultra low noise linear power supply Keces P8. The Keces has two zones (meaning it can power two products at the same time) and switchable voltage and up 4.2Amp each. As you can see in the pictures, the Mytek only consumes 1Amp and the SoTM only 0.5Amp with or without the headphones, at any volume.
The benefit of the SoTM USB conditioner/reclocker is subtle, but it is there, mostly larger image, more vivid details and deeper stage. The benefit of the external power supply is tighter bass and better dynamics.

On the SoTM, reclocking the USB signal sure sounds like a super keen, neat-o idea, superficially. But, why on earth does the USB signal need reclocking in asynch USB when the actual clocking of D to A is provided by the DAC master clock out of its internal buffers? Also, data transmission in asynch USB doesn't need precise clocking on the incoming data stream, as long as the DAC buffers get filled when the DAC signals it needs more data to fill them. Sure, they have to be filled within a reasonable period of time, but extreme clocking precision on the incoming data stream is beyond totally superfluous.

It strikes me that the key design aim and marketing pitch of the device is based on appeals to inflated, irrational and ignorant fears about the jitter bogey man, which is a total non-issue with asynch USB. If there is a measurement somewhere showing actual jitter reduduction at the output of a DAC provided by the SoTM, I will fall off my chair. And, by the way, since virtually every contemporary USB DAC is asynch, if you have an older one which is not, best to spend money on getting an asynch USB DAC rather than wasting it on a device like the SoTM.

Perhaps, in addition, it also provides some noise isolation, but in a properly designed DAC, that should be built in. I fully expect it is with Mytek.

I don't know how to say this diplomatically, but, my friend, at $990, you have drunk the Kool Aid.

 

[grigorianvlad]

I don't know how to say this diplomatically, but, my friend, at $990, you have drunk the Kool Aid.

Your argument is "I can't explain why would it possibly sound better with the SoTM, therefore it doesn't. To you (me)"
Think about that for a second...
Regarding the Kool Aid. I wish there was more in that bowl.

 

[Purité Audio]

Your arguement is... well you don’t have one, but you ‘believe’ it makes a difference.
You need to ask a friend to plug and unplug the SOTM without you knowing when it is in circuit, if you can reliably pick it that will be a start.
Keith

 

[grigorianvlad]

You need to ask a friend to plug and unplug the SOTM without you knowing when it is in circuit, if you can reliably pick it that will be a start.
Keith

... and then what? What if that test proves that the SoTM improvement isn't real? You do know what happens next, right? I will have to return it and get something even more expensive and repeat the test again. Then again. It may all end up with a $80,000 DCS stack , god forbid.
Thank you very much, but no. I'd much rather be ignorant but happy to enjoy the imaginary improvement as opposed to being right and utterly gearless. Life is too short for that. We all should enjoy pleasures where we can find them, not dissect them with such blunt tools as mere logic. All logic is a very long way to yourself.
As Upton Sinclair said once (the quote is mistakenly attributed to Sinclair Lewis):
“It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.”

 

[Fitzcaraldo215]

It is your choice, of course. However, you cited only a subtle audible difference from the SoTM. And, though you did not say, I presume that was in sighted listening.

As with Amir's testing of the original Amber Regen, not the ISO, it is possible that the SoTM influences transmitted noise, but not necessarily for the better. The Amber actually slightly increased noise, though it claimed to reduce it. So, there might even be a detectable sonic difference with the SoTM, but not by reclocking. Some listeners might even prefer some slight additional noise. Or, they might hear a slight difference and merely assume it is an "improvement", because that is what the marketing and user testimony preconditions them to believe. I do not know of any measurents for the SoTM, so we are just in the dark, except for all the anecdotal, sighted reviews around the web about "improved" sound quality. Believe them if you choose.

The above is merely hypothetical about one way the SoTM might influence the sound. There might be others. Or, the SoTM, like the ISO Regen, might introduce no sonic difference at all, except in the fertile imaginations of reviewers and listeners.

Rest assured that their elaborate claims to jitter improvement via reclocking the data stream in asynch USB are pure garbage. Hey, if reclocking is good for spdif, AES/EBU or Toslink, it must be good for USB, too. Right? No, wrong! There are no measurements anywhere because it has no effect on asynch USB. A somewhat deeper understanding of how asynch USB actually works will convince you of that, I am sure. Don't listen to me, if you prefer. Read up on it yourself.

If you are convinced of SoTM's good faith without any solid evidence, and if you are convinced that you can hear things totally accurately by sighted listening in an unbiased way free of influence by marketing claims or mere user testimony, then be happy with your SoTM. I think you will find many people here disagreeing with your beliefs, however, for very solid reasons.

 

[Purité Audio]

... and then what? What if that test proves that the SoTM improvement isn't real? You do know what happens next, right? I will have to return it and get something even more expensive and repeat the test again. Then again. It may all end up with a $80,000 DCS stack , god forbid.
Thank you very much, but no. I'd much rather be ignorant but happy to enjoy the imaginary improvement as opposed to being right and utterly gearless. Life is too short for that. We all should enjoy pleasures where we can find them, not dissect them with such blunt tools as mere logic. All logic is a very long way to yourself.
As Upton Sinclair said once (the quote is mistakenly attributed to Sinclair Lewis):
“It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.”

Absolutely as long as you don’t mind being taken for a fool, dealers will rub their hands together when they see you coming at laugh at your gullibility when you have gone.
Keith

 

[grigorianvlad]

It is your choice, of course. However, you cited only a subtle audible difference from the SoTM. And, though you did not say, I presume that was in sighted listening.

If you are convinced of SoTM's good faith without any solid evidence, and if you are convinced that you can hear things totally accurately by sighted listening in an unbiased way free of influence by marketing claims or mere user testimony, then be happy with your SoTM. I think you will find many people here disagreeing with your beliefs, however, for very solid reasons.

Yes , the difference was subtle. It wasn't as dramatic as some reviewers described. It wasnt like night and day. The main thing the SoTM made the Mytek sound more detailed and analog-like, more vinyl-like. I know not everyone into that sort of sound. There are other benefits , but I already went over them.
If Mytek Brooklyn was a 100% improvement, if there was such a thing, the SoTM improved it further by another 20%. A small improvement for sure, but that i how the law of diminishing returns works. You spend a hundred bucks on a huge improvement at first, but as you progress up the ladder you end up spending ten times as much for 1/10th of the benefit. It is a journey.

 

[grigorianvlad]

Absolutely as long as you don’t mind being taken for a fool, dealers will rub their hands together when they see you coming at laugh at your gullibility when you have gone.
Keith

More power to them (as long as they give me the usual discounts).

 

[Fitzcaraldo215]

... and then what? What if that test proves that the SoTM improvement isn't real? You do know what happens next, right? I will have to return it and get something even more expensive and repeat the test again. Then again. It may all end up with a $80,000 DCS stack , god forbid.
Thank you very much, but no. I'd much rather be ignorant but happy to enjoy the imaginary improvement as opposed to being right and utterly gearless. Life is too short for that. We all should enjoy pleasures where we can find them, not dissect them with such blunt tools as mere logic. All logic is a very long way to yourself.
As Upton Sinclair said once (the quote is mistakenly attributed to Sinclair Lewis):
“It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.”

There is no argument with the ignorance is bliss concept.

But, the rest of your argument is specious or worse, no other way to say it.

Again, enjoy your system. But, if you are looking for approval or endorsement of your views, please understand that you will not find much of that here in this Forum. That is not what we are about.

 

[Sal1950]

... and then what? What if that test proves that the SoTM improvement isn't real? You do know what happens next, right? I will have to return it and get something even more expensive and repeat the test again. Then again. It may all end up with a $80,000 DCS stack , god forbid.

The ole saying goes, a fool and his money are soon parted.
If you'd rather believe in Santa Claus than reality, who are we to burst your bubble.
But the spreading of these myths on the audibility of these devices in a system of reasonable quality is snake-oil marketing done by folks with little integrity in their business ethics. They depend on people with attitudes like yours to make their wallets fat while laughing all the way to the bank.

 

[amirm]

I got an SoTM tx-USBultra instead. That device goes a bit further. Not only it deals with the noise, it also offers a reclocking system with an iIsolated differential clock signal circuit. It removes jitter, the main enemy here.

There are no measurements on that site to know if it does what it says it does. My experience with testing this class of devices has been that what they think they have done, they haven't.

Note that by inserting yet another device with its own power supply, you much increase the potential for ground loops and mains leakage. Indeed this has been a problem with a lot of these powered tweaks.

Anyway, if you are willing to loan it to me, I love to measure and test its effect on DACs I have. SoTM devices are popular and would be good to put some data behind their words. I have tested one of their streamers here but that has been it.

 

[grigorianvlad]

But, if you are looking for approval or endorsement of your views, please understand that you will not find much of that here in this Forum. That is not what we are about.

I can see that now. Thank you.

 

[Jinjuku]

Again, enjoy your system. But, if you are looking for approval or endorsement of your views, please understand that you will not find much of that here in this Forum. That is not what we are about.

I wouldn't say that. I would be perfectly willing to setup a bias controlled listening session and then work it back from there.

I'll trust his/her ears if they will.

 

[Xyrium]

Make bass great again ..

I'm on page 15 of this thing, and though it appears the thread died last month, I can't resist but to read on. Thomas, in my delirium (I really should go to sleep) your post almost made me fall off of my chair in laughter.

BTW, Amir, though I'm a noob here, I'd like to thank you for all of your efforts, and for tirelessly defending them. Keep up the great work, and please measure the A30 soon!