UpTone Audio EtherREGEN Switch Review

[amirm]

I'd rather hedge my bets in favour of possible optimisation of my system

How do you know it is an optimization? My testing of some if the other Uptone products showed degradation.

 

[PierreV]

- The absence of such a "proven" effect does not mean a that a difference does not exist! Just means an effect has not been established.
- Even failure to demonstrate a sig. effect in a good experiment does not necessarily mean that no difference exists. The experiment may be good, but not sufficiently sensitive.

Well, as you know, it is very hard, if not impossible, to prove that some effect or phenomenon does not happen.
In order to be considered "scientific" an explanation about an effect (a "hypothesis" that may or may not lead to a theory) has to be falsifiable.

But consider this simple question:

if either the supposed degradation of normal switches or the supposed improvement of audiophile switches is beyond our current measurement abilities, how do the manufacturers of those devices verify that their devices perform as they advertise them to perform?

why not hedge your bets even more with pet rocks?

 

[Sal1950]

How do you know it is an optimization? My testing of some if the other Uptone products showed degradation.

Except for here, I never remember reading of some widget or magic dot snake-oil product that did anything but make earth shaking improvements.
Now what's the odds of that being true?

 

[dc655321]

I think I can hear its beneficial effect on SQ. I can't prove I hear a difference.

Sure you can! If you can hear a difference then a difference could certainly be measured.

Odd that such a difference has never been demonstrated...

 

[Killingbeans]

I can't prove I hear a difference.

You don't have to, because you absolutely do hear a difference.

But you can do tests to find out whether or not the difference you are hearing is caused by changes to the sound or something else.

 

[Frank Dernie]

- Objectivist protagonists are correct in saying that nothing is proven unless a fitting test yields a statistically sig. difference between conditions (e.g. switch/no switch; or, 2 or more switches etc).
- The absence of such a "proven" effect does not mean a that a difference does not exist! Just means an effect has not been established.
- Even failure to demonstrate a sig. effect in a good experiment does not necessarily mean that no difference exists. The experiment may be good, but not sufficiently sensitive.

Among the things that make a good scientist are:
a) an open mind and the embracement of mysteries (without them science would have nothing to investigate); and,
b) a capacity for logic - understanding what can and should not be asserted given suitable empirical data - and also their lack.

I have an eR between PC and D16 AES in an offline Dante/RedNet system. I think I can hear its beneficial effect on SQ. I can't prove I hear a difference. That doesn't mean I am obliged to dispose of the eR. I'd rather hedge my bets in favour of possible optimisation of my system.

At the time I bought the eR, I wasn't of the view that the same money could be better hedged elsewhere. I'm not of the view now that its second hand value would be better invested elsewhere.

The eR is the only Uptone product I own. I wish @Superdad well with future product development.

In the case of electronics all there is is the amplitude, frequency and phase of the signal appearing at the connectors.
There is nothing else.

Our measuring instruments can definitely measure all 3 of these to a degree of accuracy exceeding human ears.

Audio electronics is not at the cutting edge of scientific mystery, it is actually mature and relatively trivial on the electronic side so since this is the case we can definitively measure with existing equipment everything electronics does which could possibly influence the sound it may add or subtract.

Implying differences is just marketing, which can be very persuasive particularly when endorsed by "I can hear a difference" and "I trust my ears" stories which have become rife in HiFi over the last 30 to 40 years, profitably enough.

That is not to say people don't hear differences, we do, but in the case of this sort of device the most probable, even perhaps the only possible, scientific explanation is the placebo effect, which is very strong and well known.

 

[Mart68]

In the case of electronics all there is is the amplitude, frequency and phase of the signal appearing at the connectors.
There is nothing else.

Our measuring instruments can definitely measure all 3 of these to a degree of accuracy exceeding human ears.

Audio electronics is not at the cutting edge of scientific mystery, it is actually mature and relatively trivial on the electronic side so since this is the case we can definitively measure with existing equipment everything electronics does which could possibly influence the sound it may add or subtract.

Implying differences is just marketing, which can be very persuasive particularly when endorsed by "I can hear a difference" and "I trust my ears" stories which have become rife in HiFi over the last 30 to 40 years, profitably enough.

That is not to say people don't hear differences, we do, but in the case of this sort of device the most probable, even perhaps the only possible, scientific explanation is the placebo effect, which is very strong and well known.

There's a couple of issues here. Firstly the idea that we cannot necessarily rely on our own direct experience is a concept that has to be grasped intellectually, not emotionally. Many people are not able to take a step back and do that.

Maybe having them do a blind test would jolt them out of that, as it has done for many, but mostly they refuse to even contemplate doing this. I'm not sure why.

Secondly many enthusiasts are completely unaware of all the many decades of research in the fields of audio science and psychology. To them audio is the wild west, undiscovered country. where anything could be around the next corner. They see themselves as pioneers, seeking out and discovering the unknown.

That's part of the fun for many, indeed for some it seems to eclipse the actual fun of just enjoying music - or perhaps it is fairer to say it complements that experience for them.

So I think we have to accept that snake oil products, like the poor, will always be with us.

 

[Frank Dernie]

Secondly many enthusiasts are completely unaware of all the many decades of research in the fields of audio science and psychology. To them audio is the wild west, undiscovered country. where anything could be around the next corner. They see themselves as pioneers, seeking out and discovering the unknown.

That's part of the fun for many, indeed for some it seems to eclipse the actual fun of just enjoying music

This is encouraged by the market too.

Ignorance is the biggest reason people make poor decisions, and by no means just in HiFi!

 

[Mart68]

This is encouraged by the market too.

Ignorance is the biggest reason people make poor decisions, and by no means just in HiFi!

yes it is encouraged by the dealers, the magazines, the forums and by the peer group. It's a false reality that it is almost impossible to break down after years, decades even, of such conditioning.

At least with hi-fi the only consequence is some wasted money. Consequently the dichotomy interests me but I can't get as agitated about it as some people seem to be able to.

 

[ahofer]

Secondly many enthusiasts are completely unaware of all the many decades of research in the fields of audio science and psychology.

Not to mention digital storage and recreation.

 

[sq225917]

An inability to learn from mistakes is the reason the world and hifi is borked...

 

[Jinjuku]

Rajiv Arora - a.k.a. @austinpop - is both a computer geek and a lifelong audiophile. He doesn’t work much, but when he does, it’s as a consultant in the computer industry.

I'm banned member Plissken at AS. Banned for pushing back on bullshit like austinpop piss poor reviews.

If he's done networking as you've said then he's certainly familiar with 802.3ad. I welcome him to a SBT with an 802.3ad setup any day of any week in his very own setup.

Here's my proof of concept actually working:

 

[watts]

There's a couple of issues here. Firstly the idea that we cannot necessarily rely on our own direct experience is a concept that has to be grasped intellectually, not emotionally. Many people are not able to take a step back and do that.
....

...That's part of the fun for many, indeed for some it seems to eclipse the actual fun of just enjoying music - or perhaps it is fairer to say it complements that experience for them.....

Sometimes I wish I could be one of those people (typically younger) you see listening to their 64 kbps music through their iphones, through $20 earbuds, and visibly being so emotionally connected to the experience, enjoying the hell out of it.

There is not anyone, anywhere who enjoys the music more than this person, whom has never heard of the label audiophile.

 

[Frank Dernie]

Sometimes I wish I could be one of those people (typically younger) you see listening to their 64 kbps music through their iphones, through $20 earbuds, and visibly being so emotionally connected to the experience, enjoying the hell out of it.

There is not anyone, anywhere who enjoys the music more than this person, whom has never heard of the label audiophile.

There is a wide spectrum of people using music reproduction from people who are keen on equipment and spend a lot of their time studying and evaluating it to at the other end people who enjoy music, buy something that sounds OK to them then enjoy music on it for years.

I had a next door neighbour who pretty well only tested his HiFi, updated frequently to the latest must-have and had hardly any records, luckily he was delighted for me to come over and listen to my records on it!

 

[elvisizer]

My testing of some if the other Uptone products showed degradation.

i'm STILL mad about the money I wasted on a JS-2 and the mac mini fan controller kit a couple of years ago- spent over $1k making my mini's usb output noisy as hell.

 

[Sal1950]

I'm banned member Plissken at AS. Banned for pushing back on bullshit like austinpop piss poor reviews.

You were a baaaaaaaaaaaaad boy. LOL
He lost a lot of good, knowledgeable members with that quarantine shit.
Most all are here now.

 

[Jinjuku]

You were a baaaaaaaaaaaaad boy. LOL
He lost a lot of good, knowledgeable members with that quarantine shit.
Most all are here now.

He wanted a site populated by useful idiots. He's got it.

 

[mansr]

He wanted a site populated by useful idiots. He's got it.

What he doesn't realise is that he is also a useful idiot to the people higher up the pyramid.

 

[Jinjuku]

I have an eR between PC and D16 AES in an offline Dante/RedNet system. I think I can hear its beneficial effect on SQ. I can't prove I hear a difference. That doesn't mean I am obliged to dispose of the eR. I'd rather hedge my bets in favour of possible optimisation of my system.

Why do you even assume that's the optimal path?

I picked up:

Cisco 2630: 48Gbe copper, 4 TenGbe SFP+ $60
Dell R620 2GBe copper, 2 TenGbe SFP+ $19 NIC (for my R620 Server: NAS, DNLA, pFsense FW etc)
SolarFlare 2 TenGbe SFP+ PCIe 8x gen2 20
FS.COM TenGbe SFP+ multi-mode transceivers for $18 per (x2)
MM fiber cabling $40

According to Uptones own white paper I'm actually better off than using their own products:

I have a better moat, I have zero 'leakage currents', I have better jitter performance, and I have 12,800 times the throughput potentially.

BTW I'm a network engineer that has done AES67 and spoken with the guys at Focusrite and they laughed their asses off when I told them about this switch.

 

[Jinjuku]

Summary
The UpTone EtherREGEN is one of those rare products that delivers high-end audio performance at an affordable price. Not only does it deliver “surprisingly audible sonic improvements” as claimed, it holds its own against the best-sounding competing products out there, that cost 3x its price or more.

What about it's benefits on Video?